Thinking about an electric outboard for the tender

[Avocet]

Hi All,

Our 1998 Suzuki DT 2.2 is becoming unreliable, and it seems spares are getting hard to find. I think the current problem is the ignition coil (or magneto as Suzuki call it), which looks like being about £180 from Japan. I'm wondering if the money might e better put towards a newer outboard?

It only really has to do a few hundred yards, with an 8' rigid fibreglass tender (definitely not a planing shape)! I was therefore wondering about an electric outboard?

Does anyone have any recommendations, please? If the Suzuki was producing 2.2 horsepower, then that's plenty for what we need. What sort of thrust would I be looking for from an electric outboard to give similar speed through the water, please?

 

[Tranona]

Do a search as there are endless threads on the subject. Basically there are 3 choices. The low cost approach using a a trolling motor like a Bison with a separate battery, one of the new integrated low powered types such as Kicker, E-Lite and Temo, and the "traditional" premium models Torqeedo and E Propulsion which are essentially electrified copies to ICE outboards.

You will find advocates for all of them, particularly the first and last types - the integrated types are really too new to see any firm opinions. The trolling motors have been around for a long time and are relatively cheap but of variable quality and have limitations in terms of power, range and convenience because of the need for a separate battery. The premium models are well established and the nearest to a direct replacement, but at a cost of roughly 3 times an equivalent ICE outboard. The integrated type are relatively low powered and limited range but are aimed at those who want maybe only occasional use for short runs. Not surprisingly priced roughly in the middle between the cheap and cheerful and the premium models. All apart from the basic trolling motors more expensive than a petrol outboard.

You will find this useful for what is available in the second and third categories nestawayboats.com/product-category/electric-outboards/ There have been a number of reviews in YM and PBO of what is available including trolling motors. Example here yachtingmonthly.com/gear/best-trolling-motors-8-electric-outboard-alternatives-85704

 

[bitbaltic]

Will follow with interest. In a similar position, we have a 1997 Honda 2hp which has been reliable for the last decade (bought second hand) but spares are getting harder to find and it has no clutch. SWMBO is getting fed up of it as you have to get the family in the dinghy, do a few uncertain pulls, and then it sets off like a bat out of hell in a direction of its choosing for a time of its choosing. She wants what Tranona calls a premium electric outboard, with a display which tells you it’s range before you start and which (always) goes when you twist the handle and (always) doesn’t if you don’t. I get the point and have budget for one this season, so keen to see recommendations to the OP.

 

[FairweatherDave]

I very reluctantly parted with the money having got to exactly the same stage with our Suzuki 2.2DT....yes you could keep it going but wait times for spares from far far away (if you could get them) etc etc. I bit the bullet. Quick pros and cons......the Suzuki 2 stroke is light and compact. With our E propulsion Spirit Plus the weight of the battery mounted directly on the motor was really too much for our Avon inflatable and I bought the outrageously priced cable so that the battery can sit on the floor of the dinghy. With a solid tender I expect this would not be necessary. Power wise it pushes the dinghy along nicely, just as the Suzuki did, except silently . Finally no petrol smells, I keep it inside the house or leave it in the car and no fumes. I could sleep with it! No worries about range anxiety for our style of use. For an extended uk cruise I would charge at a marina as and when, but I'd been happy going off for over half an hour with a full battery, just as a litre of petrol in a two stroke might last 40 minutes. Actually did a much longer trip up the Hamble to the Horse and Jockey and no problem with two people in the Avon. And we could have a conversation. For the minimal amount of fuel you use with a two stroke it is greener to fix the two stroke, but if a nightmare to keep it running (as it was) I'm happy to have switched. Definitely got my money's worth with the Suzuki and part of me misses the tinkering and the smell. The E propulsion is boring and no hassle and expensive. But it does do the job. Cleanly and quietly.
PS Long term I hope the reliability will be good, we are just into our second season with the E motor.

 

[Shuggy]

I very reluctantly parted with the money having got to exactly the same stage with our Suzuki 2.2DT....yes you could keep it going but wait times for spares from far far away (if you could get them) etc etc. I bit the bullet. Quick pros and cons......the Suzuki 2 stroke is light and compact. With our E propulsion Spirit Plus the weight of the battery mounted directly on the motor was really too much for our Avon inflatable and I bought the outrageously priced cable so that the battery can sit on the floor of the dinghy. With a solid tender I expect this would not be necessary. Power wise it pushes the dinghy along nicely, just as the Suzuki did, except silently . Finally no petrol smells, I keep it inside the house or leave it in the car and no fumes. I could sleep with it! No worries about range anxiety for our style of use. For an extended uk cruise I would charge at a marina as and when, but I'd been happy going off for over half an hour with a full battery, just as a litre of petrol in a two stroke might last 40 minutes. Actually did a much longer trip up the Hamble to the Horse and Jockey and no problem with two people in the Avon. For the amount of fuel you use with a two stroke it is greener to fix the two stroke, but if a nightmare to keep it running (as it was) I'm happy to have switched.

We\re into our second season with an E-propulsion and I agree with the above. The only thing I would add is that we tend to charge the battery off the inverter if we're motoring and we're on a longer cruise. We've not had any range anxiety with it to date, and the added benefit is that everyone can use it with ease - our Mariner 4 stroke definitely had a knack to starting it. I'd got really fed up of carb issues on the Mariner and had perfected the art of removing the carb, cleaning it and replacing it in about 10 minutes. Happily a distant memory now.

 

[Sidedrum]

When the 2.5 HP Mariner that came with my first boat, bought in 1992, packed in a few years later - possibly due to the fact that my massive learning curve on the main attraction meant I'd not given the outboard a thought let alone any TLC - I switched to a 1 HP model: me. The dinghy at the time was an Avon Redcrest. Decent enough rubber rowlocks to use proper oars. I eventually replaced the Avon with a Tinker - proper rowlocks, proper oars. I'm still rowing the Tinker but have had to change the rowlocks. I think that cost me something under £30 - much less than I'd have spent on petrol over the years. And I've upgraded the oars since because if your only means of propulsion on a heavy inflatable is oars - well, she's definitely worth it. I've maintained much better arm strength from rowing which comes in handy with pretty much everything on the boat.

But I reckon to most that I'm that rare beast: a living dinosaur. Modern inflatable dinghies with their wee aluminium oars aren't designed to row. Good luck to the OP in choosing a new motor!

 

[arcot]

Newport 3 hp electric out board...36 volt runs from external battery. US $1100

 

[Boathook]

Will follow with interest. In a similar position, we have a 1997 Honda 2hp which has been reliable for the last decade (bought second hand) but spares are getting harder to find and it has no clutch. SWMBO is getting fed up of it as you have to get the family in the dinghy, do a few uncertain pulls, and then it sets off like a bat out of hell in a direction of its choosing for a time of its choosing. She wants what Tranona calls a premium electric outboard, with a display which tells you it’s range before you start and which (always) goes when you twist the handle and (always) doesn’t if you don’t. I get the point and have budget for one this season, so keen to see recommendations to the OP.

EPropulsion spirit. Plenty of recent threads on here and scuttlebutt about pros and cons of various makes.

 

[nestawayboats]

As Tranona says (thank you), we sell what he describes as "second and third category" electric outboards ie:
- those equivalent to 1.5-2hp with integrated non-removable batteries (housed in the shaft), such as ePropulsion eLite, ThrustMe Kicker, TEMO 450
- those equivalent to about 3hp with still-integrated-but-removable batteries on top, such as ePropulsion Spirit PLUS/EVO, Torqeedo Travel 603/903/1103

We don't sell first category lower power type aka trolling motors, where you need to carry a separate battery in the boat. You can of course get much smaller lighter lithium batteries these days - it doesn't have to be a 25kg car battery type - but I don't personally like this option because of the extra faff connecting everything up and (if you do it properly/safely) putting battery in a waterproof box and finding a way to secure it into the dinghy.

If you're replacing a 2hp petrol outboard and fit the category of "yacht tender to get to the pub and back or take the dog ashore, a couple of times a day" then the (fairly new to market) integral battery type has a lot of merit and probably does all you need. The heaviest option in that class, the 500W power 378Wh battery capacity ePropulsion eLite, weighs 6.5kg (NB that's including its integrated battery) and if you run it flat out (ie 500W) will drive a typical inflatable dinghy at ~4 knots for 45mins. So 3 nautical miles range at full chat, which is enough for a lot of tenders... and as always you'll get quite a lot more by slowing down a bit. The lighter ones such as the ThrustMe are lighter mainly because they have less battery capacity, so they have a bit less range at the same speed. They won't get anything on the plane but neither will a 2hp petrol outboard except maybe a very very light dinghy with a very very light load. As soon as you're talking about two or more people the extra low down torque that you get with electric motors makes them if anything more effective than the petrol engine getting bogged down trying to push you along at displacement speed. This class is in the £1000 price range which is not that far off a (new) 2hp petrol outboard, especially if you factor in a couple of years petrol outboard servicing (the electric ones don't need any servicing) and/or carb cleans when they gum up due to E10 petrol (the electric ones obviously don't have that issue!). And as I like to point out that doesn't factor in any extra value you may attribute to the benefits of a lighter, quieter, smoother, non-leaking, push button start outboard to replace your petrol one.

If you need more range/speed then the integrated removable battery electric outboards mentioned have typically double the power ie 1kW or so, and 2-3 times the battery capacity. The ePropulsion Spirit PLUS for example is a 1kW motor with a 1276Wh battery and would drive the same dinghy as above at ~5knots for 1hr 15mins (ie 6nm range), or ~4knots for 2.5hrs (10nm range). This class is in the £2000 range.

If you need more range/speed than that then it's not a problem in terms of electric outboard motor power but you will start to come up hard against battery issues. Mainly, you won't want to lift the battery/batteries you need (to make use of the extra power) in and out of your dinghy. It may still be viable for semi-permanent installations where the motor/battery stay attached to the dinghy hoisted in davits. But the other thing that may or may not be an issue is cost, which starts to rise quite quickly (again mainly because you need more lithium battery capacity).

Ian, Nestaway Boats Ltd

 

[ylop]

Ian,

Thats a really helpful summary for those who might be tempted. I guess the "big" point you've not covered is charging. So:

1. Can you summarise what the charging options are for the £1k and £2k models/ranges
2. How long would it take on a suitable 12V supply (I'm guessing like EV's they maybe quote a 20-80% time?)
3. How long on a 240V supply
4. Removable battery is presumably easy to bring below decks to charge - is it practical to charge the smaller ones on a transom bracket or does the charger need to be close to the supply given the currents involved, water proofing etc? 378Wh doesn't sound ridiculous to link to a solar panel?

Presumably with the removable battery option, if you found yourself running low its potentially more practical to take the battery off and negotiate a charge whilst consuming food/drink ashore than trying to prop up an o/b in the corner of the pub?

I guess the other thing people should bear in mind is that over time the batteries will degrade, so if 3NM range is enough today, it might be borderline in 2 years. Presumably with an integrated unit there's no option to replace the battery when it finally becomes too bad?

 

[JFowler]

An interesting thread. We’re getting to the age to consider electric.
We rarely plug into shore power, relying on engine/ solar charging. I see one can buy a solar / 12v charger. How long would it take to charge from the boat 12v supply?

 

[rogerthebodger]

A friend of mini dingy with an electric trolling motor powered with LA batteries charged by an 80 watt solar panel that is left on a dingy mooring 24/7

I am in the process of building a similar setup for one of my dingy

 

[nestawayboats]

Ian,

Thats a really helpful summary for those who might be tempted. I guess the "big" point you've not covered is charging. So:

1. Can you summarise what the charging options are for the £1k and £2k models/ranges
2. How long would it take on a suitable 12V supply (I'm guessing like EV's they maybe quote a 20-80% time?)
3. How long on a 240V supply
4. Removable battery is presumably easy to bring below decks to charge - is it practical to charge the smaller ones on a transom bracket or does the charger need to be close to the supply given the currents involved, water proofing etc? 378Wh doesn't sound ridiculous to link to a solar panel?

Presumably with the removable battery option, if you found yourself running low its potentially more practical to take the battery off and negotiate a charge whilst consuming food/drink ashore than trying to prop up an o/b in the corner of the pub?

I guess the other thing people should bear in mind is that over time the batteries will degrade, so if 3NM range is enough today, it might be borderline in 2 years. Presumably with an integrated unit there's no option to replace the battery when it finally becomes too bad?

YLOP questions (overlapping with JFOWLER):
(1)-(3) for the removable battery type yes both ePropulsion and Torqeedo offer 12V and mains chargers. The ePropulsion Spirit PLUS 12V charger/solar controller draws 8A at 12V taking 12-13hrs if it's empty. It'll almost never be empty after a typical day's use on a yacht tender so it would be safe to say "on 12V it'll usually charge back to full or nearly full overnight". Mains charger is nearly twice as quick so will always charge overnight. Torqeedo 903 & 1103 chargers (ie for the 916Wh batteries) are slower but also charging less capacity so the mains one will almost always get it full overnight but the 12V (50W) might not, depending on how much you used that day.
- for the integral battery types ThrustMe and TEMO both offer 12V chargers, ePropulsion promise one for the eLite but hasn't arrived yet (spec tbc but educated guess would be at least 50W). These are much lower capacity batteries so will all charge overnight on 12V input.
(4) re ease of moving about for charging that's a bit six of one, half a dozen... The integral battery motors are lighter in total than the removable batteries of the removable type ones, but yes a separate battery (albeit heavier) might be a bit easier to move about than a whole motor. But if you made the battery removable on the integral battery types it would inevitably make the total size/weight bigger (because you have to have both motor and battery in waterproof casings, rather than a battery inside a waterproof motor casing). And the few problems we get with electric outboards are usually caused by battery connection cables (usually resolved by spraying them with contact spray), so getting rid of the connector altogether eliminates the only problem of any statistical significance (and it's still very low but as with most things those who have/had a problem are much more vocal than those who don't)...

An eLite ex bracket (which can be left on the dinghy) in its bag is lighter than some handbags so I don't see it as being that difficult to take to the pub and then choosing a seat next to a wall socket seems achievable. Lots of people plug in their phones or kids tablets etc.

Re battery degradation over time they all lose something like 3 to 4% of (remaining) capacity per year, just by existing. So after 5 years it will still work but you might begin to notice a difference. After 10 years you will notice it but in 10 years this being a fast-moving industry you'll probably be after the new one that's half the weight with double the battery capacity anyway. Or in 10 years there might be a retro-fit larger capacity battery that works with these motors (the motors are fairly "mature", the batteries are still improving thanks to car industry). In terms of charge cycles you can charge and discharge these batteries several hundreds if not thousands of times so kind of irrelevant to most leisure users who'll never get near those numbers. The batteries on all the integral battery types can be accessed/replaced but it's not considered DIY as they're well sealed in and need to be correctly re-sealed afterwards.

Ian, Nestaway Boats Ltd

 

[Minerva]

As Tranona says (thank you), we sell what he describes as "second and third category" electric outboards ie:
- those equivalent to 1.5-2hp with integrated non-removable batteries (housed in the shaft), such as ePropulsion eLite, ThrustMe Kicker, TEMO 450
- those equivalent to about 3hp with still-integrated-but-removable batteries on top, such as ePropulsion Spirit PLUS/EVO, Torqeedo Travel 603/903/1103

We don't sell first category lower power type aka trolling motors, where you need to carry a separate battery in the boat. You can of course get much smaller lighter lithium batteries these days - it doesn't have to be a 25kg car battery type - but I don't personally like this option because of the extra faff connecting everything up and (if you do it properly/safely) putting battery in a waterproof box and finding a way to secure it into the dinghy.

If you're replacing a 2hp petrol outboard and fit the category of "yacht tender to get to the pub and back or take the dog ashore, a couple of times a day" then the (fairly new to market) integral battery type has a lot of merit and probably does all you need. The heaviest option in that class, the 500W power 378Wh battery capacity ePropulsion eLite, weighs 6.5kg (NB that's including its integrated battery) and if you run it flat out (ie 500W) will drive a typical inflatable dinghy at ~4 knots for 45mins. So 3 nautical miles range at full chat, which is enough for a lot of tenders... and as always you'll get quite a lot more by slowing down a bit. The lighter ones such as the ThrustMe are lighter mainly because they have less battery capacity, so they have a bit less range at the same speed. They won't get anything on the plane but neither will a 2hp petrol outboard except maybe a very very light dinghy with a very very light load. As soon as you're talking about two or more people the extra low down torque that you get with electric motors makes them if anything more effective than the petrol engine getting bogged down trying to push you along at displacement speed. This class is in the £1000 price range which is not that far off a (new) 2hp petrol outboard, especially if you factor in a couple of years petrol outboard servicing (the electric ones don't need any servicing) and/or carb cleans when they gum up due to E10 petrol (the electric ones obviously don't have that issue!). And as I like to point out that doesn't factor in any extra value you may attribute to the benefits of a lighter, quieter, smoother, non-leaking, push button start outboard to replace your petrol one.

If you need more range/speed then the integrated removable battery electric outboards mentioned have typically double the power ie 1kW or so, and 2-3 times the battery capacity. The ePropulsion Spirit PLUS for example is a 1kW motor with a 1276Wh battery and would drive the same dinghy as above at ~5knots for 1hr 15mins (ie 6nm range), or ~4knots for 2.5hrs (10nm range). This class is in the £2000 range.

If you need more range/speed than that then it's not a problem in terms of electric outboard motor power but you will start to come up hard against battery issues. Mainly, you won't want to lift the battery/batteries you need (to make use of the extra power) in and out of your dinghy. It may still be viable for semi-permanent installations where the motor/battery stay attached to the dinghy hoisted in davits. But the other thing that may or may not be an issue is cost, which starts to rise quite quickly (again mainly because you need more lithium battery capacity).

Ian, Nestaway Boats Ltd

Thanks Ian.

Similar to the OP, my 2/ outboard has just died. The epropulsion e-lite has caught my eye due to its form factor and weight but many retailers have copied the official blurb which states;

“** Sport mode can last up to 1 minute, subject to battery SOC and temperature”

That cannot be correct surely? So you know what sort of actual time / range one might get?

 

[nestawayboats]

"Sport Mode" on the ePropulsion eLite... I tried to stop them using that description when I found out they were planning to, but it was too late! It's a 500W motor for heaven's sake, SPORT?? However the software/screens were programmed and the manuals were printed.

Boost Mode, maybe.

The eLite has a 500W motor with a 378Wh battery. If the battery is not too hot, not too cold, and not too flat - which is actually not as restrictive as it might sound, ie available most of the time but obviously not when it's down to 2% - it can run at up to 750W for up to a minute. It felt like longer that that to me but maybe my battery was very happy (full), I didn't think to time it. This does genuinely make the dinghy go (a bit) faster for that minute and may be useful if you have a strong cross tide or similar. It won't run longer than that (ie at the 750W), to avoid overheating the motor and/or battery, but at 500W on a full charge it will run for 45 mins or so. Nearly an hour at 400W and so on. As most people with an ePropulsion Spirit or Torqeedo 1103 etc, on a dinghy, only use 400-500W anyway - because most tender-type inflatable dinghies don't go much faster if you double the power, you're up against hydrodynamics/hull speed and nowhere near planing - the eLite is remarkably effective.

So if you use the Sport Mode a couple of times during your journeys yes you will slightly reduce the running time out of Sport Mode - but no it's absolutely not the case that you only get one minute in Sport Mode in total, then the battery is done. The 750W is just something that's available in relatively short bursts... between the rest of the time at up to 500W.

Yes I have used one, 500W is definitely sufficient to drive inflatable dinghies at useful speeds. The eLite is a very good electric outboard if you don't need to go more than 2-3 miles a day in your tender, at harbour legal speeds, which is quite a high proportion of UK tender users. Obviously it does not cover those who want/need to hoon around in a 3.5m RIB at 25 knots... but even those users might find one useful as a second, much easier to install/lift etc, motor for shorter journeys.

Ian, Nestaway Boats Ltd

 

[snowbird30ds]

I find my spirit 1.0 will shove a 2.7m airdeck dinghy with 2 adults and a dog along nicely at around 340W giving about 3.5knots on flat water, that's nearly 4 hours running.

 

[nestawayboats]

I find my spirit 1.0 will shove a 2.7m airdeck dinghy with 2 adults and a dog along nicely at around 340W giving about 3.5knots on flat water, that's nearly 4 hours running.

Exactly. A lot of our Spirit customers rarely use their motor above half power, and when we speak to them at boat shows etc they also often say they don't need to charge their battery for several days.

A Spirit is arguably more than some of these (short journey in harbour yacht tender) customers need, hence the "niche below" or new ultralight integral battery class occupied by the eLite and its rivals.

If you do need more power, or to go more than a day or two's worth of use on one charge, that's what the larger removable battery models (Spirit, Torqeedo 903 etc) are there for.

Ian, Nestaway Boats

 

[JFowler]

Thanks Ian - very useful information.
Something to give serious consideration to over the winter.

 

[Avocet]

As Tranona says (thank you), we sell what he describes as "second and third category" electric outboards ie:
- those equivalent to 1.5-2hp with integrated non-removable batteries (housed in the shaft), such as ePropulsion eLite, ThrustMe Kicker, TEMO 450
- those equivalent to about 3hp with still-integrated-but-removable batteries on top, such as ePropulsion Spirit PLUS/EVO, Torqeedo Travel 603/903/1103

We don't sell first category lower power type aka trolling motors, where you need to carry a separate battery in the boat. You can of course get much smaller lighter lithium batteries these days - it doesn't have to be a 25kg car battery type - but I don't personally like this option because of the extra faff connecting everything up and (if you do it properly/safely) putting battery in a waterproof box and finding a way to secure it into the dinghy.

If you're replacing a 2hp petrol outboard and fit the category of "yacht tender to get to the pub and back or take the dog ashore, a couple of times a day" then the (fairly new to market) integral battery type has a lot of merit and probably does all you need. The heaviest option in that class, the 500W power 378Wh battery capacity ePropulsion eLite, weighs 6.5kg (NB that's including its integrated battery) and if you run it flat out (ie 500W) will drive a typical inflatable dinghy at ~4 knots for 45mins. So 3 nautical miles range at full chat, which is enough for a lot of tenders... and as always you'll get quite a lot more by slowing down a bit. The lighter ones such as the ThrustMe are lighter mainly because they have less battery capacity, so they have a bit less range at the same speed. They won't get anything on the plane but neither will a 2hp petrol outboard except maybe a very very light dinghy with a very very light load. As soon as you're talking about two or more people the extra low down torque that you get with electric motors makes them if anything more effective than the petrol engine getting bogged down trying to push you along at displacement speed. This class is in the £1000 price range which is not that far off a (new) 2hp petrol outboard, especially if you factor in a couple of years petrol outboard servicing (the electric ones don't need any servicing) and/or carb cleans when they gum up due to E10 petrol (the electric ones obviously don't have that issue!). And as I like to point out that doesn't factor in any extra value you may attribute to the benefits of a lighter, quieter, smoother, non-leaking, push button start outboard to replace your petrol one.

If you need more range/speed then the integrated removable battery electric outboards mentioned have typically double the power ie 1kW or so, and 2-3 times the battery capacity. The ePropulsion Spirit PLUS for example is a 1kW motor with a 1276Wh battery and would drive the same dinghy as above at ~5knots for 1hr 15mins (ie 6nm range), or ~4knots for 2.5hrs (10nm range). This class is in the £2000 range.

If you need more range/speed than that then it's not a problem in terms of electric outboard motor power but you will start to come up hard against battery issues. Mainly, you won't want to lift the battery/batteries you need (to make use of the extra power) in and out of your dinghy. It may still be viable for semi-permanent installations where the motor/battery stay attached to the dinghy hoisted in davits. But the other thing that may or may not be an issue is cost, which starts to rise quite quickly (again mainly because you need more lithium battery capacity).

Ian, Nestaway Boats Ltd

Thanks, that's really useful. I shall ponder it. I don't mind tinkering with petrol outboards, but when the spares dry up, there's not a right lot you can do! Also, not getting any younger, and even the Suzuki (which is very light), was becoming a chore to get on board. It's a rigid tender (fibreglass but "mock clinker", never intended to plane). Usually overloaded because we're on a lake, but I literally only need about 500 yards of range from it, and if it can push the tender faster than I could row it, that's good enough. The 500W e-Lite sounds like it would do the job. Are there such things as 12 chargers for them, or do people just use an inverter and the mains charger (if, for any reason, we had to charge it on the boat)? What sort of power are the mains chargers? 100W?

Edit: Sorry, ignore the last bit on charging, I hadn't seen your other answers at the time I wrote it!

 

[nestawayboats]

500W is a lot more than human arms, and direct drive electric motors turning propellers are very efficient. So 200W on the motor is likely faster than a rower could sustain.

And at displacement speeds, whilst it depends on shape, almost every fibreglass rowing boat will be less draggy / more efficient / easier-driven than an inflatable dinghy, so you will need less power than an inflatable with same load.

Ian, Nestaway Boats