Stemar
Well-known member
Well done - you're a braver man than I!
Pioneer 9
- Thread starter Lawski
- Start date
pmnfernando
Member
ah..bravery and stupidity....some say there isnt much difference!
pmnfernando
Member
pmnfernando
Member
hello to all
the refit continues although on a designing phase as it is hell on earth until october, so there isnt any boatbuilding for now
I do need a little help about sizing up the tiller head.
Due to a totally unpredictable and incomprehesible reason just let say that i "lost" the original rudder shaft, among other orignal boat hardware including the top bearing housing, and tiller head.
all that i have left is the tiller helmet.
Im designing the shaft.
its not a difficult thing to do, since i can take measures from the grp spade halves and reverse draw it. (i also measured the diameter of the original one, which is the main number)
My question is about the tiller head assembly. ive talk to Jeffa who have been completely useless. im actually shocked at how useless a company can be in dealing with hardware they manufacture.
To the more experience and knowledgeable among you :
the boat measures 29 LOA
24 LWL
displacement is 3.5, but lets make it 5ton, after all is back onboard and ready to go
rudder area is 0.37 m2
for the moment, the top of the shaft sits at 40mm OD, which is why i was leaning towards Jeffa's 47040BR tiller head model
Index of /ftp/rudder/Tillerheads
if you follow that link it will let you see pdf drawings from their models, including the one im inclined to.
my only doubt concerns the lenght of the tiller helmet. mine measures 400mm and 47040BR Jeffa measures 220mm. all other dimensions are the same or exceeded by the Jeffa model
anyone with experience with Jeffa stuff or the scantlings for this hardware.?
Ive been reading Dave Gerr book (which actually helped me in correcting the rudder area to optimize its balance) but nothing is said about tiller assemblies.
It would be a great help!
Cheers
the refit continues although on a designing phase as it is hell on earth until october, so there isnt any boatbuilding for now
I do need a little help about sizing up the tiller head.
Due to a totally unpredictable and incomprehesible reason just let say that i "lost" the original rudder shaft, among other orignal boat hardware including the top bearing housing, and tiller head.
all that i have left is the tiller helmet.
Im designing the shaft.
its not a difficult thing to do, since i can take measures from the grp spade halves and reverse draw it. (i also measured the diameter of the original one, which is the main number)
My question is about the tiller head assembly. ive talk to Jeffa who have been completely useless. im actually shocked at how useless a company can be in dealing with hardware they manufacture.
To the more experience and knowledgeable among you :
the boat measures 29 LOA
24 LWL
displacement is 3.5, but lets make it 5ton, after all is back onboard and ready to go
rudder area is 0.37 m2
for the moment, the top of the shaft sits at 40mm OD, which is why i was leaning towards Jeffa's 47040BR tiller head model
Index of /ftp/rudder/Tillerheads
if you follow that link it will let you see pdf drawings from their models, including the one im inclined to.
my only doubt concerns the lenght of the tiller helmet. mine measures 400mm and 47040BR Jeffa measures 220mm. all other dimensions are the same or exceeded by the Jeffa model
anyone with experience with Jeffa stuff or the scantlings for this hardware.?
Ive been reading Dave Gerr book (which actually helped me in correcting the rudder area to optimize its balance) but nothing is said about tiller assemblies.
It would be a great help!
Cheers
Tranona
Well-known member
That looks fine. The length is similar to this
All looks way overengineered
All looks way overengineered
pmnfernando
Member
Hello Tranona
Indeed thats an original tiller helmet just like the one i have. it measures 400 mm end to end lenght wise. the one from Jeffa measures 220 mm , thats half the distance.
In your opinion it is well enough to steer this boat, correct?
thanks for your input
Zeehond2
New member
Hi, I am also extensively refitting a Pionier 9. Van de Stadt were able to provide the original construction drawings, including for the rudder. I have attached screen shot of the drawing - the original is too large to upload. Hopefully this is helpful. Cheers
Attachments
pmnfernando
Member
This is fantastic info.
I actually finished designing the rudder shaft and changed its configuration a bit after taking some measurements from the rudder spade halves. i chose not to angle the rudder at that particular point and make it straight as far down as possible. To my mind it makes for a stronger design without that bend being so exposed
Ive increased the horizontal web from the original 4 pieces to 5 and added gussets joining them (green line)
the only measure i had was the diameter of the shaft and it read 57 mm, which is an odd number in metric but reads 2.25 inches in imperial so i guess this was some imperial stock they had available.
I increased the OD to 60 mm, tapering to 40mm at the tiller head
im unable to read some of the numbers on your screen shot. When i zoom in, they get pixelated.
Would be great to see some photos of your refit also.
I wonder if it would be possible for me to get a copy of the original drawings from VdS as well, as i would like to have that info and make it a part of the boat's documentation
Thanks!
Zeehond2
New member
Hi, if you let me have an email address, I can share information that can't be uploaded. I upload short videos on the project to my YouTube channel occasionally https://www.youtube.com/@oldsailor9022/videos
pmnfernando
Member
Hi
i left a comment in one of your videos with an email address.
was great seeing your progress
cheers!!
Zeehond2
New member
Hi, for some reason I can't see you comment on the video. Could you try again. Cheers
pmnfernando
Member
hi
ive left another comment, lets hope this one comes thru!
Stingo
Well-known member
As an anti-spam measure, YouTube auto deletes anything that looks like an email address or a URL. That´s why you can´t find his comment
pmnfernando
Member
ok...let me try that again then. they wouldve blocked my last attempt also im sure
Rudyraff
New member
Hi there
I'm off to see a vds pioneer 9 right now can you give any buying advice?
pmnfernando
Member
got any photos?
Zeehond2
New member
Hi
This advice may be rather late. I inspected several Pionier 9s before buying mine. A common issue I found with boats that had been stored outside on the hard was flooding. The cockpit drains are of a small diameter and block easily with leaves etc. Most boats have an engine/shaft inspection hatch in the cockpit floor that isn't fully watertight. Once more than about 50mm of water accumulates in the cockpit, it leaks into the interior. I saw two boats that had been left overwinter on the hard and ruined engines and interiors as a result. Look for signs of flooding.
Otherwise, look for all the common issues with elderly boats. While Pioniers are well built you may find structural issues with areas of decking where freshwater has stood for long periods. The electrical systems will often be tragic/comically unsound. Depending on your intended use, inspect the rigging and mast carefully - try to find the age of the standing rigging and mast from the owner. The design massively over specifies the keel bolts, but as with all second hand boats you should inspect the bolts/nuts in the bilge and joint externally if the boat is out of the water.
All the boats I saw in the UK needed investment in rigging, sails and systems. The need for these investments needs to be factored into a decision and into the purchase price.
pmnfernando
Member
the work continues!
head to
Introducing Katie-J - Page 7 - Plastic Classic Forum
for more detailed info
cheers!
head to
Introducing Katie-J - Page 7 - Plastic Classic Forum
for more detailed info
cheers!
justanothersailboat
Active member
I'm a little envious of that green GRP sheet. It looks like just the ticket for some problems, but is expensive in the UK and it seems not easy for a non-trade buyer to get big bits.
pmnfernando
Member
Hi
Go to Alibaba and find a supplier willing to sell you a sheet (which im reality is half a plywood sheet, ie, 4 x 4 ft)
If you need smaller quantities Aliexpress might also be a solution, but it gets more expensive
You would be paying custom duty being in the UK
Cheers
Pedro
