Boat for single-handed sailing?

[[165264]]

Dear All,

I retired at 57, four years ago, and in that time I have done various sailing courses, crewed sometimes (in the Solent/S Coast) plus skippered four weeks of charter in the Adriatic (three as bareboat), got my dayskipper practical and my Yachtmaster Theory exams, and now consider myself modestly competent/safe. I have for the last year been a member of a commercial yacht-share scheme at Hamble, which has been good for improving skills and building some miles. I have now decided that my own boat would be the next step. I am fully aware of the issues with that. The yacht share scheme has been OK but one has too many points to use in winter and not enough in summer. To pay for a nice lot of points for summer use would rapidly make things very nearly as dear as owning a boat, and there is always the question of potential non-availability of a boat when one wants one. (To be fair- not much of an issue thus far.) I'm fortunately still pretty agile. This summer I would have spent weeks on my own boat, though I appreciate this summer is exceptional.

My problem is that Mrs Saliva doesn't really like sailing in the UK. Getting like-minded people along sometimes works, but not always, as people have their own lives to lead. Now, as it happens, I quite like my own company, and am not too worried about sailing alone. (I'd buy a personal distress beacon, for starters.)

So, ideas please about a suitable boat? I would not buy new. My budget would be c £60k tops. I'd get the survey, of course, and am not in a rush. My first obvious choice would be a Hanse 345, but they are all a bit too new to hit my budget. I don't really like the self-taking jib, because it means one only can have a small foresail. I also don't like the mainsheet tracker being in the way of the cockpit. I like the lines all coming aft to the steering position though.

I've sailed a Dufour 34 a few times. It's kind of OK but doesn't fill me with enthusiasm; I'm not sure why.

At 6ft 3ins a bit of headroom would be nice.

I'm looking at the S Coast and possibly, when more experienced, going to France. (Though the latter almost certainly not alone.)

My only "sine qua non" is a wheel and not a tiller. (Personal preference) I also realise that any boat will mean compromises.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Tintin]

You will probably find a tiller far easier to use than a wheel when the s#@t hits the fan solo.

Far easier to put it between your legs to steer leaving both hands free for lines and sheets. It also allows you to have a back up autopilot at a cheaper cost - losing your autopilot (mechanical failure) and having to hand steer for hours when solo is very tiring.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

My boat is only 32ft long and has a tiller. I sail mostly solo although I find it immensely convenient to have a tiller-pilot. This does the steering for me and allows me to move easily from the helm. I find that a wheel, apart from the (subjective) visual appeal, also acts as a barrier between the helmsman and the sheets, sails, winches, lines, etc.
Of course, a lot depends on the boat and the sailor; a Pen Duick sailed by someone like the late Eric Tabarly, Alain Colas, Loick Peyron, etc., is not for everyone. I am close to 72, not as I agile I used to be and am very happy with the tiller. I would not have it any other way.

 

[eddystone]

Mostly agree with previous responses; personally I would go with tiller or twin wheels - being “trapped “ behind large wheel makes mooring difficult not to mention access to sail controls.
Although people sail huge boats singlehanded with electrical aids overall length is important for mooring unless you are confident you can bring it to a dead stop alongside in most conditions because you will need to reach from the helm to drop a bowline over a cleat from midships cleat (essential btw).
Most modern boats have high freeboard which is a problem for me because of dodgy knees
Regarding choice between masthead/large Genoa and fractional with big main is swings and roundabouts imho although self tacker and furling gennaker sounds good .
FWIW I can manage Sadler 32 singlehanded but wouldn’t do same with our Flying Fifteen.

 

[ashtead]

I would suggest it's not the sailing which presents challenges but the berthing if looking to single hand. We have had a self tacker and find it really useful and if worried about sail area look for the smallest with double headsails. I agree that mainsheet out of cockpit is a big plus but would suggest avoiding one in front of sprayhood so maybe a double sheet system or German mainsheet system. If cabin clearance is important that might be dictate choices if looking in the 345 size range? A lot might also depend on activities proposed e.g. Going down creeks or whatever ?

 

[photodog]

a few observations....

I’ve been solo sailing largely for the past decade or so, And thats with a 32 foot modernish boat..



I think there are several areas to be thinking about to make this easy..

1) sail handling and general controls...

All the key controls need to be brought back tothe helm.... so the Genoa sheets and main sheet need to be at the helm in the first instance, Halyards need to be in the cockpit... the reefs also should as well... (though I need to go to the mast for reef 2 and 3 to put them on the cringe) sail handling needs to be quick especially on the drop... so a good stackpack can be a godsend...

So a coach roof mounted traveller with the main sheet to a clutch by the companionway is really a non starter imho, especially if you have a wheel... as you won’t be able to control that easily.

A German system for the mainsheet is tempting... but it’s not so efficient... so my feeling is that the mainsheet needs to come back straight to a point at the helm... either on a single point.. which is fine imho on a boat up to 32feet or so... or a traveller...

Fully battened main is good imho as combined with good cars it goes up and down easily and quickly...

2) workload... this needs to thought about... our boat has a excellent avs, but this is at the cost of being quiet tender, so she heels a lot more than a boat which more form stability... and recently I have found that when short tacking it’s becoming a bit too much like hard work... so I think something more modern with a bit more form stability Would be a good thing... again, coming back to the Genoa... a self tracker really helps to reduce this workload... buying now that would be very high in my list.. a good autopilot.... don’t scrimp on that.

3). Handling in the marina... this is actually the most disconcerting bit... a boat which goes well astern is opening up options and reducing the need to manouve where you might come unstuck..midships cleat is also important... easy disembarking from the cockpit without too many obstacles... something not too big so you can push it about if needed..

4) accommodation... how easily can you get to the fridge and toilet? Make sure it comfortable and good for the wife... u put her off... you will NEVER sail as a couple, and she will resent the money your spending.


Really though in the end it’s all about confidence... don’t get something so big that you will be overpowered, or too small that you and a couple of passengers would be uncomfortable on... I figure for something modern the 32-34 foot range is about right...

I’ve been thinking recently bout this a lot... looking for something to go up in size wise... and the Hanse 342 has been high in the list, (used circa mid £50’s, you can easily put the mainsheet on a short traveller in the cockpit with this boat..) I’ve also been perusing a Dehler 35cr... so I would look at that sort of 34 foot size instead... the dufour 34 would be again on my list, But a good one is probably outside of that price.

FYI mine is a 1999 Bavaria 31...

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Whatever the boat and steering the one thing you need for comfortable single handed sailing is a very reliable auto pilot and that does not mean a wheel pilot. A strong well installed below decks autopilot with a remote will allow you to manage the boat and sails easily. Berthing can be an issue particularly when there are strong adverse direction winds and or tide but you can usually get someone to help in those instances.

 

[sailorman]

Whatever the boat and steering the one thing you need for comfortable single handed sailing is a very reliable auto pilot and that does not mean a wheel pilot. A strong well installed below decks autopilot with a remote will allow you to manage the boat and sails easily. Berthing can be an issue particularly when there are strong adverse direction winds and or tide but you can usually get someone to help in those instances.

:encouragement:

 

[photodog]

Whatever the boat and steering the one thing you need for comfortable single handed sailing is a very reliable auto pilot and that does not mean a wheel pilot. A strong well installed below decks autopilot with a remote will allow you to manage the boat and sails easily. Berthing can be an issue particularly when there are strong adverse direction winds and or tide but you can usually get someone to help in those instances.

Spot on, I would suggest spending a bit less on a boat, and then having some dosh to make some upgrades like this...

 

[pvb]

I've been primarily single-handing for the last 30 years. The "must have" features for me are a decent autopilot, in-mast furling and wheel steering. A properly installed below-decks autopilot takes so much pressure off you, and can follow a plotter course if required. In-mast furling keeps you safely in the cockpit most of the time, and there's no reason to put off reefing. Wheel steering is convenient and takes up less space than a tiller, plus the pedestal is often a good place to locate compass, engine controls and instruments.

I wouldn't worry about having a smaller jib; rig design has changed in recent times and many boats no longer feature enormous genoas.

In terms of size, larger boats generally have more inertia and a more sea-kindly motion, and tend to be less skittish when mooring in a breeze. I've had a 36ft, a 35ft and now a 37ft.

 

[Tintin]

a few observations....

I’ve been solo sailing largely for the past decade or so, And thats with a 32 foot modernish boat..



I think there are several areas to be thinking about to make this easy..

1) sail handling and general controls...

All the key controls need to be brought back tothe helm.... so the Genoa sheets and main sheet need to be at the helm in the first instance, Halyards need to be in the cockpit... the reefs also should as well... (though I need to go to the mast for reef 2 and 3 to put them on the cringe) sail handling needs to be quick especially on the drop... so a good stackpack can be a godsend...

So a coach roof mounted traveller with the main sheet to a clutch by the companionway is really a non starter imho, especially if you have a wheel... as you won’t be able to control that easily.

A German system for the mainsheet is tempting... but it’s not so efficient... so my feeling is that the mainsheet needs to come back straight to a point at the helm... either on a single point.. which is fine imho on a boat up to 32feet or so... or a traveller...

Fully battened main is good imho as combined with good cars it goes up and down easily and quickly...

2) workload... this needs to thought about... our boat has a excellent avs, but this is at the cost of being quiet tender, so she heels a lot more than a boat which more form stability... and recently I have found that when short tacking it’s becoming a bit too much like hard work... so I think something more modern with a bit more form stability Would be a good thing... again, coming back to the Genoa... a self tracker really helps to reduce this workload... buying now that would be very high in my list.. a good autopilot.... don’t scrimp on that.

3). Handling in the marina... this is actually the most disconcerting bit... a boat which goes well astern is opening up options and reducing the need to manouve where you might come unstuck..midships cleat is also important... easy disembarking from the cockpit without too many obstacles... something not too big so you can push it about if needed..

4) accommodation... how easily can you get to the fridge and toilet? Make sure it comfortable and good for the wife... u put her off... you will NEVER sail as a couple, and she will resent the money your spending.


Really though in the end it’s all about confidence... don’t get something so big that you will be overpowered, or too small that you and a couple of passengers would be uncomfortable on... I figure for something modern the 32-34 foot range is about right...

I’ve been thinking recently bout this a lot... looking for something to go up in size wise... and the Hanse 342 has been high in the list, (used circa mid £50’s, you can easily put the mainsheet on a short traveller in the cockpit with this boat..) I’ve also been perusing a Dehler 35cr... so I would look at that sort of 34 foot size instead... the dufour 34 would be again on my list, But a good one is probably outside of that price.

FYI mine is a 1999 Bavaria 31...

Agree fully, except about all lines led aft.

Invariably when reefing single handed, with lines all back to the cockpit, something jams at the last, usually in conditions when you really wished it hadn't.

I took the view 5 years ago that having reading and halyards at the last was the best solution. It m3ans I am used to, and comfortable with, moving to and working at the mast, with centre line jack stay. That means, for me anyway, that when it's horrid I am not too scared to go to the mast to reef.

It also means it's viable to have the 3rd reef permanently ready, without the huge friction and miles of line that single line back to cockpit entails.

To adjust halyard tension I have a Cunningham permanently rigged and led back.

 

[eddystone]

Regarding a previous response if you swap the luff reefing hooks for “spectacles” you can bring luff reefing lines back to cockpit

 

[agroundagain]

Hi, I had a similar set of requirements five years ago when we bought plus I was constrained by my mooring to bilge or lifting keel. I am 6 4 so banging the old swede was a major consideration.

There was a very long list of potential boat's so we went on a family sailing holiday on a Bavaria 32 in Greece to help figure out what was important on a boat of that size. This was really useful and confirmed a few things that helped narrow the section criteria. These were:

• banging one's head on hard things above deck is a whole lot more irritating, not to say dangerous, than bumping it gently on nice headlining below decks so a fairly high boom became more important than headroom below. You will catch it on the top of door frames unless you get a really big boat. The only place I found it to be a problem was the heads.
• a wheel is a right PITA on a boat of that size. Constantly in the way when you are not actually sailing. For a single hander, as others have said, I think it would be a real hindrance for accessing the other controls. Also, I have an inbuilt prejudice from my dinghy days that a wheel is somehow not proper if the boat is small enough for a tiller (could justify this by saying more responsive, better feel etc.)
• apart from the wheel, the boat had a clear cockpit which was good.
• simple is better. For example, I didn't like the German main sheet, barely used the more complex facilities of the chartplotter, didn't really need a widlass and, again, another tick for a tiller.
• the one or two controls that weren't accessible from the cockpit annoyed me.
• stowage will be limited so having enough space below to manoeuvre round everyone's full bags is important
• the Bavaria had a swimming platform transom which made using the dinghy, getting the outboard on and off etc. fairly easy. No need for a swimming platform in the Solent but ease of access through a sugar scoop made my list.

I ended up with a Westerly Tempest and I'm delighted with her but your budget would get more than one.

When starting solo, as others say, leaving and arriving are easily the most daunting things taking much thought and practice before you can be confident. I have a masthead rig with a large genoa. This means tacking when solo is sometimes not as slick as I'd like but is not too much of a problem unless in light winds when it has a tendency to catch on the radar. She can be a bit skittish when manoeuvring slowly in a crosswind with a tendency to weathercock quickly but otherwise handles fine under motor. Get the sails balanced properly and the autohelm does very little work when sailing (although not good at all dead downwind).

The usage was expected to be me and my mates going out for a blast, me and my wife and daughters taking the occasional overnight trip to e.g. Cowes or Chichester, capability for further afield and some solo sailing (which I hadn't done at that point). Five years later and the usage is skewed towards me going out on my own which I find I enjoy much more than I expected with trips with friends and family trips still featuring.

 

[Tranona]

I went through exactly this process 3 years ago, except that I had the luxury of being able to buy new The key things for me are similar to that mentioned by many above. Ergonomic cockpit, easy sail handling, easy berthing, good cruising performance, good accommodation (I am a big person so need the space) and good build quality. I was downsizing from a well used and much loved Bavaria 37 and my wife loved the sailing in the Med (more drifting from anchorage to anchorage than sailing) but never much fancied sailing here. I live 15 minutes from the boat which is on a marina berth in the club, so I can grab a sail almost any time I want as well as access south, east and west for some decent passages in good weather (like the last few weeks).

My short list was Bene 311, Hanse 325, Jeanneau 33i and Bavaria 33. The first was too small - very cramped, second a bit bigger and despite the self tacking sail was ergonomically poor, and a bit tight on space, particularly forward, the 33i was nearly there but again poor cockpit ergonomics. So decided on the Bavaria. Excellent cockpit with all controls led back, mainsheet and headsail winches accessible from the wheel and clear space to walk around the wheel. Bonus is drop down transom which also provides a good helm seat. The level of "standard" equipment is high but i added an in mast (had good experience with it on the previous boat) extra pair of winches larger engine (a bit overkill) and a bow thruster. Even specced to a high level the price was very competitive with others.

Has it worked? Definitely exceeded expectations. The fractional rig with big main means short tacking around the harbour is easy - would never have attempted it on the old boat. Berthing is relatively easy and bow thruster rarely needed although good to have. Confidence has returned and I have just bought a furling cruising chute which adds to the fun. Very comfortable to live on. Plenty of space, huge loo and shower, galley a bit cramped, adequate chart table for planning (most navigation depends on the chart plotter). Nothing significant has broken or fallen off and access for servicing is good.

If you are interested Clipper Marine have a 2013 example with a similar spec to mine for sale at a bit over your budget at £70k which is well worth a look. New has gone out of touch for price at well over £130k for same spec as mine, so asking price is not unreasonable and would be a good long term "investment".

PS you are welcome to come and look at mine - just drop me a PM.

 

[photodog]

I went through exactly this process 3 years ago, except that I had the luxury of being able to buy new The key things for me are similar to that mentioned by many above. Ergonomic cockpit, easy sail handling, easy berthing, good cruising performance, good accommodation (I am a big person so need the space) and good build quality. I was downsizing from a well used and much loved Bavaria 37 and my wife loved the sailing in the Med (more drifting from anchorage to anchorage than sailing) but never much fancied sailing here. I live 15 minutes from the boat which is on a marina berth in the club, so I can grab a sail almost any time I want as well as access south, east and west for some decent passages in good weather (like the last few weeks).

My short list was Bene 311, Hanse 325, Jeanneau 33i and Bavaria 33. The first was too small - very cramped, second a bit bigger and despite the self tacking sail was ergonomically poor, and a bit tight on space, particularly forward, the 33i was nearly there but again poor cockpit ergonomics. So decided on the Bavaria. Excellent cockpit with all controls led back, mainsheet and headsail winches accessible from the wheel and clear space to walk around the wheel. Bonus is drop down transom which also provides a good helm seat. The level of "standard" equipment is high but i added an in mast (had good experience with it on the previous boat) extra pair of winches larger engine (a bit overkill) and a bow thruster. Even specced to a high level the price was very competitive with others.

Has it worked? Definitely exceeded expectations. The fractional rig with big main means short tacking around the harbour is easy - would never have attempted it on the old boat. Berthing is relatively easy and bow thruster rarely needed although good to have. Confidence has returned and I have just bought a furling cruising chute which adds to the fun. Very comfortable to live on. Plenty of space, huge loo and shower, galley a bit cramped, adequate chart table for planning (most navigation depends on the chart plotter). Nothing significant has broken or fallen off and access for servicing is good.

If you are interested Clipper Marine have a 2013 example with a similar spec to mine for sale at a bit over your budget at £70k which is well worth a look. New has gone out of touch for price at well over £130k for same spec as mine, so asking price is not unreasonable and would be a good long term "investment".

PS you are welcome to come and look at mine - just drop me a PM.

Tell me about your furling chute..... I’m dead keen to add one... I’ve already got the seldom sprit...

 

[Daydream believer]

I have a 2003 hanse 311 from new & 95% of my sailing is single handed. I have been round UK twice & regularly do east coast to channel islands & Brest Etc. along with Dutch canals. As for manouverablity I have done over 250 lock passages single handed
The single line reefing from the cockpit is a boon as I can stay off the deck. At 71 years of age I prefer not to go for acrobatics if I can help it.
In hindsight would have had a 34 ft if I had been shown one at the time & realised the extra size etc & how long I was going to keep the boat.
Not so sure about the latest 345 though but that is because I am a constant "tweaker" I do not like all the lines to a couple of winches ( I have 6 winches & 26 control line options in my cockpit). An older second hand one in good condition would be a good buy.
The headroom in the 311 is fair (I am 6ft 6ins) & the heads are roomy. The bunks are long
I love the self tacker & down wind is not a problem as I have barber haulers fitted. One benefit is that I can carry it unfurled in bottom end of a F8 which is far more efficient.
Finally, the boat is quick & has good performance in heavy weather.

 

[[165264]]

Thank you folks. I am so glad that I started to get some answers to my question, rather than solely people telling me why I should have a tiller. (I DON'T like them- geddit?????)

 

[[165264]]

Thanks- that's very helpful. I shall wait until the late autumn. Clipper Marine might well be open to offers then!

 

[Tranona]

Tell me about your furling chute..... I’m dead keen to add one... I’ve already got the seldom sprit...

Lovely colour - blue white with a bit of red and looks fantastic when drawing. Adds more than a knot over the jib with the wind anywhere between 70 and 150 degrees. Had a lovely run up the western Solent the other evening at 7 knots with the autopilot steering to the wind.

Probably no different from other cruising chutes, but there is a huge range of cuts and sizes so you need to check with a sailmaker (preferably more than one) so you understand the differences before you make your choice. Anyway I went for a conservative size of 65sqm in the heavier 1,5oz cloth (total plain sail area of boat 55sqm, probably a bit more than yours). The furler is a Selden setup and this size can use the smaller (cheaper) model. I also have the furling line guides that fit on the stanchions and the trick double roller jamming cleat which clips onto the pushpit. The tack goes down to the boarding step on the pulpit (modified so the loads go straight down the the forestay fitting) rather than the bow sprit arrangement) This is not ideal as it does not get the chute forward, but in practice works well and allows me to put it on while in the dock rather than underway.

Not cheap. Have used it for roughly 5 hours at £600 an hour! The gear, which to me is what makes it work came to over £1800. It can, however be used with other types of offwind sails although a bit of a faff removing the sail and adding another.

Kemps made the rig and included setting it up and a morning tuition on how to use it - but this was a bonus and it does not take long to work out, particularly if you have a crew while you are setting it up.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Tell me about your furling chute..... I’m dead keen to add one... I’ve already got the seldom sprit...

Is that the one you don't use that often. Sorry couldn't resist