Route planning, Solent to the Clyde

[GHA]

Thank you! I'd had a good look at Navily but didn't know about this site - that's great. Also about windy - the free version is so useful I never considered the paid version.

I think maybe to only bit of the paid version worth paying for is the distance & planning, for quick & easy "just having a look" it ended up being the best I found, even without the weather

 

[boomerangben]

Lots of great advice here.

We did Hamble to Stornoway in 7 days, 4 experienced crew stopping for only one night, fuel and a pud meal in Bangor waiting on the Tide for the MoK.

We did Hamble to Brixham in one long day (5am to midnight) but we did stop in Weymouth for fuel so that added 3 hours or so.

The rest was for fuel stops: Salcombe and Dun Laoghaire.

The boat was UFO31 which had been laid up for a while. We got lucky with fuel and the engine did struggle after we arrived in Stornoway with mucky filters. We had no idea what fuel consumption was nor did we trust the fuel gauge. So I would be very keen if I was you to make sure the fuel tank is clean and to get some idea of the size of the tank and consumption either before you go or early on.

Similarly make sure you have a box of tools and spare bits and pieces and make sure the gas is plentiful and hoses new.

 

[Skylark]

Thanks. Yes, the skipper will have ultimate responsibility but there's a lot to do to get the boat ready so I'm trying to do as much advance planning as possible to keep stress in that respect to a minimum for both of us. Also it's me who's taken responsibility for buying and getting to know the nav gear etc. As a sea kayaker I do have prior experience of route planning involving tides etc (and when you're under your own steam only it's crucial to get it right!) and when we've sailed together in our previous boat we would discuss options together.

The plan is for us to both eventually be fully competent at everything so that we can take turns in skippering but for now we're playing to strengths. I'm a bit better with things like buoyage, operating the nav gear and the radio, and have been servicing and getting to know the engine while my partner is great at boat handling, trimming the sails, reading the wind and weather and is generally far more practical and competent in all those things, big and small, that come up and great at finding solutions to problems. He's not familiar with sailing this boat though and it's quite different from the one we owned previously (and not for very long).

I've never planned such a long route before so I want to get my head round the big, important legs and the rest I want to be familiar with but it can fall into place depending on weather etc.

Sounds as though you have the right attitude and are taking a sensible approach. Don’t think of it as one long route, better to break it down into a series of smaller passages, much easier to get your head around

A lot of good suggestion but unfortunately they’ll send you all points of the compass.

Sailing against a timetable and/or against a defined route isn’t always wise. Weather, breakdowns etc have a habit of conspiring against you. Having charts, tidal atlases, Almanac and Pilot Books on board gives you all the flexibility that you’ll need.

 

[Suzi B]

Very sensible approach. Take your time, get to know your boat and enjoy the trip. It will be a blast.

Need to work with tides and weather but if anchoring I would be looking at something like this, to be sitting set up nearby each tidal gate from your anchorage.

1) Solent to swanage
2) Swanage to weymouth
( going alongside a long pontoon is ok as its not going into a marina as such or just anchor out in weymouth bay if the wind serves.)
You could even get this in one day if you were lucky with tide times and weather but two will be comfortable.

3) Your then close for picking your ideal time to round portland bill, and onto Dartmouth or thereabouts. (Tidal gate/ overfalls at the Bill.)
4) Next round start point (overfalls) and head for something like the yealm or fowey, even coverack cove it that works, bt would be a big day.
5) Round the the lizard to penzance, (overfalls off the lizard) you could anchor in mount bay or dry out against the outer wall at penzance.
6) Your in position for lands end next, (to get to milford haven from here is a full 24 hrs or more so you need a weather window that works for breaking this section up) round that and anchor off St Ives. (overfalls at lands end)
7) Head for Padstow
8) Long day to Dale/Milford Haven

You need to be very careful of the weather and swell on that north cornish coast and wait for your weather window. St ives is a settled weather anchorage and padstow is time limited for entry by tides with a bar on the river.
If you got a good week here, it would be lovely, but actually I would strongly advise you try and time rounding lands end in the evening and getting a night sail experience by going straight for Dale at Milford Haven. Its open sea, not much to hit and gets one of the most dangerous passages over and done with in weather of your choice.
It will be daylight again before you reach the welsh coast and as there is two of you, you can get sleep at night as the crew only has to keep their eyes open.
If the wind suits you could anchor in south skomer instead of dale, youd be tangling with much less traffic after a tiring 24hrs.
If the times and weather were kind you could go straight to fishguard from here.

9) Dale to Solva via Skomer (tidal gate in jacks sound)
10) Solva to Fishguard. (tidal gate in ramsey sound, overfalls off strumble head)
11) Fishguard to Pwhelli
12) Phwelli to Porth Dinllaen (tidal gate at bardsey sound) Great pub on beach, an easy row from anchorage in Porth Dinllaen.
Again, if tide times and weather worked for you, you may be able to go straight from fishguard to porth dinllaen.
13) Porth Dinaellen to Holyhead Harbour anchorage. (overfalls at south and north stacks)
14) Holyhead to Port Erin, Isle of Man. (overfalls off calf of man)
15) Port St Erin to Donaghadee
16) Donaghadee to Sanda Island
17) Sanda Island to Largs.

Obviously it will all change once you get doing depending on weather/tides/times etc but it shows your looking at a minimum of two weeks mainly day sailing if everything turned out perfect for you, which just wont happen.
So realistically, I would expect this to take around a month to include sitting around waiting for weather or just plain having some rest days.

If you only intend to anchor, you need to make sure you are well supplied as well.

Good luck, write it up here when you have done it and let us know where you went in the end and how it was.

This is incredibly helpful - thank you soooo much!!

 

[Suzi B]

We did what you are wanting to do, setting off mid May, at the beginning of our round Britain (OK, round England, Wales and the southern half of Scotland) trip a few years ago. The plan was to get up to the Clyde as quickly as possible; we had a fortnight before we had to be home for a week's work. We'd then go back and have time to explore the West coast of Scotland for a month before going through the canal. In the end, this first leg took 12 days, and we only got as far as Holyhead. The route was:

Hamble to Weymouth
Weymouth to Dartmouth
Dartmouth to Plymouth
2 days in Plymouth, as a storm blew through
Plymouth to Coverack (anchorage W side of the Lizard - have family there)
Coverack to St Ives (anchored outside)
St Ives to Dale (Milford Haven) - 90 NM, the longest day we did, and had a lot of fog...
Day in Milford Haven stocking up, and back to Dale
Dale to Fishguard (anchored)
Fishguard to Abersoch (anchored)
Abersoch to Holyhead

This was on a Sadler 29, 2 up, (with a correctly sized Rocna!)

Points to note are that we lost a couple of days to bad weather, and another day in Milford Haven, as we knackered (and needed supplies).

When we went back and re-started the trip, we spent a further 5 days getting to Troon, but did have a couple of days on the Isle of Man.

We've been discussing taking the boat back up to Scotland for a season - if we do, it will be with 3 experienced sailors on board, and be done in a couple of long legs over a week, weather permitting.

Thank you - that's particularly useful since you were kind of in the same boat (sorry!). We'd really like to do it in two weeks if possible but we don't have to and know that a lot is going to depend on the weather and also on potential unexpected boat problems... I'd be interested to know your plan for doing it in a week, if you've already made one, just in case we end up finding somebody to come with us.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Thank you - that's particularly useful since you were kind of in the same boat (sorry!). We'd really like to do it in two weeks if possible but we don't have to and know that a lot is going to depend on the weather and also on potential unexpected boat problems... I'd be interested to know your plan for doing it in a week, if you've already made one, just in case we end up finding somebody to come with us.

Doing it in a week would be tough as you have to get Solent to Falmouth against the prevailing SW winds which is at best a 2 day sail even if you did it in one sail you are looking at 36 hours which is effectively 2 days but if you can do that then another long sail to S Ireland missing the scillies gets you with 4 days to sail up the East coast of Ireland to the Clyde. Possible but you will need a crew that you can trust and are prepared for continuous sailing.

 

[Suzi B]

Lots of great advice here.

We did Hamble to Stornoway in 7 days, 4 experienced crew stopping for only one night, fuel and a pud meal in Bangor waiting on the Tide for the MoK.

We did Hamble to Brixham in one long day (5am to midnight) but we did stop in Weymouth for fuel so that added 3 hours or so.

The rest was for fuel stops: Salcombe and Dun Laoghaire.

The boat was UFO31 which had been laid up for a while. We got lucky with fuel and the engine did struggle after we arrived in Stornoway with mucky filters. We had no idea what fuel consumption was nor did we trust the fuel gauge. So I would be very keen if I was you to make sure the fuel tank is clean and to get some idea of the size of the tank and consumption either before you go or early on.

Similarly make sure you have a box of tools and spare bits and pieces and make sure the gas is plentiful and hoses new.

Thanks. On our old boat we had an issue despite having a brand new fuel tank and new filters. After much time investigating it turned out that the actual filter housing on the Racor was blocked up, which was why changing filters didn't help. Presumably there was enough gunk in the pipes to block things up despite the new fuel tank...

I've just invested in the bits and pieces to make a fuel polishing system but I'm concerned about the tank as there's no access hatch to get in and clean it. I'm hoping that doing lots of polishing and putting copper pipe on the end of the inlet hose to make sure it gets right to the bottom of the tank, that will be enough, with the addition of plenty of diesel bug treatment. It's been sitting for over a year though so it is a worry. But yes, new fuel hoses - maybe that's something I should be doing.

Engine spares - yes, I'm trying to make sure we have all the important ones and I've tried to preempt some problems by, for example, taking off and cleaning out the exhaust elbows and cleaning the cables, etc. I've taken off quite a few things that aren't too scary to remove (water pump, starter, alternator) to give them a good clean (they were disgusting and un-loved on the outside although it does seem that filters, impellers, anodes etc were changed regularly) to give them a good clean, apply Fertan to the rust, and paint. One good thing is that we have two identical engines (it's a cat) so that allows some redundancy. Except for the fuel as they both get it from the same tank...

 

[Suzi B]

Doing it in a week would be tough as you have to get Solent to Falmouth against the prevailing SW winds which is at best a 2 day sail even if you did it in one sail you are looking at 36 hours which is effectively 2 days but if you can do that then another long sail to S Ireland missing the scillies gets you with 4 days to sail up the East coast of Ireland to the Clyde. Possible but you will need a crew that you can trust and are prepared for continuous sailing.

Probably too much on a new to us boat even with more crew...

 

[mrangry]

We did Cowes to Ardrossan in 5 days continuous apart from a six hour stop in Salcombe to address fuel contamination. There were three of us each doing 3 hour watches which seemed to work well.

 

[mrangry]

Thanks. On our old boat we had an issue despite having a brand new fuel tank and new filters. After much time investigating it turned out that the actual filter housing on the Racor was blocked up, which was why changing filters didn't help. Presumably there was enough gunk in the pipes to block things up despite the new fuel tank...

I've just invested in the bits and pieces to make a fuel polishing system but I'm concerned about the tank as there's no access hatch to get in and clean it. I'm hoping that doing lots of polishing and putting copper pipe on the end of the inlet hose to make sure it gets right to the bottom of the tank, that will be enough, with the addition of plenty of diesel bug treatment. It's been sitting for over a year though so it is a worry. But yes, new fuel hoses - maybe that's something I should be doing.

Engine spares - yes, I'm trying to make sure we have all the important ones and I've tried to preempt some problems by, for example, taking off and cleaning out the exhaust elbows and cleaning the cables, etc. I've taken off quite a few things that aren't too scary to remove (water pump, starter, alternator) to give them a good clean (they were disgusting and un-loved on the outside although it does seem that filters, impellers, anodes etc were changed regularly) to give them a good clean, apply Fertan to the rust, and paint. One good thing is that we have two identical engines (it's a cat) so that allows some redundancy. Except for the fuel as they both get it from the same tank...

Like you I polished the fuel in my tank, but unfortunately after a rough sail from Gigha back to Ardrossan the filters blocked repeatedly. Polishing fuel is fine but it will not remove the debris coating the bottom of the tank, this will only dislodge and be drawn up the fuel supply pipe in heavy weather when you least want your engine to fail. There is no easy way to fix this without physically cleaning the inside of the tank.

I ended up cutting holes in the top of the tank allowing me to get an arm in and bolting discs sealed with a rubber gasket to cover the holes.

One thing you could do is get hold of a cheap endoscope and insert it in the aperture for the tank sender, this may give you a picture of how bad the contamination is if at all.

 

[Suzi B]

Like you I polished the fuel in my tank, but unfortunately after a rough sail from Gigha back to Ardrossan the filters blocked repeatedly. Polishing fuel is fine but it will not remove the debris coating the bottom of the tank, this will only dislodge and be drawn up the fuel supply pipe in heavy weather when you least want your engine to fail. There is no easy way to fix this without physically cleaning the inside of the tank.

I ended up cutting holes in the top of the tank allowing me to get an arm in and bolting discs sealed with a rubber gasket to cover the holes.

One thing you could do is get hold of a cheap endoscope and insert it in the aperture for the tank sender, this may give you a picture of how bad the contamination is if at all.

Hmm... yeah, that's what happened to us in the old boat - it started when things got bumpy. Maybe I do have to bite the bullet on the new boat and get access. I've watched videos of it done on metal tanks but this one is a plastic - don't know if that makes it better or worse... I do have access to an endoscope though, from someone on the boatyard so that is on my list of things to do before I start polishing...

 

[Farmer Piles]

I think that it all sounds very exciting. My mate has done two trips the other way- bringing boats back to Falmouth from Largs. He chose to come down the Irish coast as you are in the lee of the prevailing Atlantic winds - offshore and smaller seas.
With regard to the north coast of Cornwall - it is very exposed in all but the kindest of weather. Padstow is very tidal, shallow and drying out sand, and the harbour is locked. Having a cat might prove difficult there too as it's a small harbour.
Falmouth, where I am, is a lovely stop but you add a solid couple of hours to your journey to Scilly or around Land's End. Anchoring in Coverack is a lovely option, very sheltered from everything apart from an easterly - rare in summer - very pretty and nice pub and cafe and close to the Lizard so you can grab an ebb tide. If time is with you then a stop at Mousehole - pronounced Mowzall in case you stop there, is equally lovely - drop the hook just outside the harbour. Similarly Scilly - if it works for your schedule then it is very special over there.
We are all keen to see you have a great trip. Keep us informed.

 

[reallycoliholic]

Cripes, this sound like an epic voyage and v time consuming. Have you considered putting it on a trailer and driving up there? Would be less stressful

 

[oldbloke]

Lots of useful experience offered and all useful in the planning stage. However as the old saying goes; man plans and God laughs.
The trip is totally weather dependent. Whilst having a broad plan you need to take it one or two days at a time .

 

[zoidberg]

There's plenty of good advice above, especially regarding the small 'boltholes' where you could drop your hook for a break, wait for the tide, get some sleep, hide from a spell of lumpy weather. I've sailed that passage multiple times, and sectors of it even more often. My way of going about the planning is this:

I'd draw a line from the Needles Fairway ( Departure ) to a point 5nm south of The Lizard, and call that 'Sector1'. I'd aim to sail that, deviating to any of the many 'boltholes/anchorages/weather havens' to the north as needs and wants dictate. There are traditional anchorages in the lee of all our big southern headlands....

Once round The Lizard, I'd shape course/Sector 2 for the Isles of Scilly. Again, there are 'boltholes' to the north including Newlyn ( Penzance nearby ), and Mullion Cove if an easterly wind.

Next, I'd head northwards/Sector 3 for Milford Haven/Dale - not NW to Cork/Kinsale as it's a long hard haul usually into the teeth of the prevailing wind and seas. Windward work. I've entered Padstow by day and night and anchored just above the Middle Ground buoy while waiting for enough 'rise' for the harbour to open; there's the SE corner of Lundy, too. Avoid the overfalls to the north....

The next leg - Sector 4 - would be from Milford towards Howth, passing between Grassholm and Skomer ( check out North and South Haven ), inside the Arklow and Kish Banks. That's sheltered water with ample nooks for hooks. It also avoids the lee shore of Cardigan Bay which has few accessible havens in a blow.

Next, I'd head to a point/Sector 5 on the Antrim coast - Glenarm, Carnlough, Red Bay, Cushendun - from which to cross conveniently over the North Channel/Sector 6 depending on whether I was aiming for Lamlash or Gigha.....

I'd be aware of the whereabouts of rail links, should a crew change be necessary, and where I might find riggers, chandleries, sailmakers - and Reeds is good for that. I'd have the phone numbers of the various harbour offices/sailing clubs I might need, as well as the VHF Calling Frequencies..... and I'd carry a couple of extra, long mooring lines and a pair of 2m. chain loops for lying alongside a moored trawler or rough granite harbour walls, in rough weather.

There are dozens of options.

Enjoy....

 

[B27]

Assuming it's a sailing boat, I wouldn't plan too much.
Just have all the options considered before you set off on each leg.
You might make Yarmouth on Day 1, or given fair wind and no issues, Swanage.
Too much planning and schedule means either motoring to keep to the plan, or wasted opportunities to press on.

On a new to me boat, I would want to be able to spend time sorting things as they inevitably arise, so I would prefer not to have too much time pressure

There are about 30 viable stops before Land's End? Rule some out on the wind direction and forecast, then see how far you can get each day.
You probably don't want to arrive in Scilly late in the day, so most people put in some dark hours out of Penzance.

A few dark hours setting off at horrid-AM can take the pressure off the end of the day. More so if you can some better tide that way.

You can run through various scenarios for each headland, either fight the tide, be well offshore or get your timing right, but basically either you pick the 6 hours of each day with favourable tide, or use the whole day and it will be against you at times. If it's not springs it won't kill you. We would be happy to crack on with an 18 hour day to do Solent to Dartmouth perhaps, but not every day.

There is a balance between cracking on and making early progress, and expecting you'll get better, sort things and the wind direction will get easier.

I think the skipper will need to kip sometimes so the second person should try to get confident with keeping watch for a couple of hours on passage. Even if you anchor every night, there may be nights when sleep isn't great.
I would not 100% rely on anchorages, there is much to be said for picking up a buoy in a nice sheltered harbour.

Fundamentally, you could face the problem of not wanting to do the next leg in a lightly crewed boat which turns out to have a few issues, if the forecast is not properly benign. You both need to be comfortable with that and have similar criteria for 'enjoying a few days in Falmouth' or whatever.

 

[Suzi B]

I think that it all sounds very exciting. My mate has done two trips the other way- bringing boats back to Falmouth from Largs. He chose to come down the Irish coast as you are in the lee of the prevailing Atlantic winds - offshore and smaller seas.
With regard to the north coast of Cornwall - it is very exposed in all but the kindest of weather. Padstow is very tidal, shallow and drying out sand, and the harbour is locked. Having a cat might prove difficult there too as it's a small harbour.
Falmouth, where I am, is a lovely stop but you add a solid couple of hours to your journey to Scilly or around Land's End. Anchoring in Coverack is a lovely option, very sheltered from everything apart from an easterly - rare in summer - very pretty and nice pub and cafe and close to the Lizard so you can grab an ebb tide. If time is with you then a stop at Mousehole - pronounced Mowzall in case you stop there, is equally lovely - drop the hook just outside the harbour. Similarly Scilly - if it works for your schedule then it is very special over there.
We are all keen to see you have a great trip. Keep us informed.

Thank you so much!!

 

[Suzi B]

Cripes, this sound like an epic voyage and v time consuming. Have you considered putting it on a trailer and driving up there? Would be less stressful

Too expensive and in any case the plan is to live aboard so this journey will just be the beginning of a continuous one, all being well...

 

[Suzi B]

There's plenty of good advice above, especially regarding the small 'boltholes' where you could drop your hook for a break, wait for the tide, get some sleep, hide from a spell of lumpy weather. I've sailed that passage multiple times, and sectors of it even more often. My way of going about the planning is this:

I'd draw a line from the Needles Fairway ( Departure ) to a point 5nm south of The Lizard, and call that 'Sector1'. I'd aim to sail that, deviating to any of the many 'boltholes/anchorages/weather havens' to the north as needs and wants dictate. There are traditional anchorages in the lee of all our big southern headlands....

Once round The Lizard, I'd shape course/Sector 2 for the Isles of Scilly. Again, there are 'boltholes' to the north including Newlyn ( Penzance nearby ), and Mullion Cove if an easterly wind.

Next, I'd head northwards/Sector 3 for Milford Haven/Dale - not NW to Cork/Kinsale as it's a long hard haul usually into the teeth of the prevailing wind and seas. Windward work. I've entered Padstow by day and night and anchored just above the Middle Ground buoy while waiting for enough 'rise' for the harbour to open; there's the SE corner of Lundy, too. Avoid the overfalls to the north....

The next leg - Sector 4 - would be from Milford towards Howth, passing between Grassholm and Skomer ( check out North and South Haven ), inside the Arklow and Kish Banks. That's sheltered water with ample nooks for hooks. It also avoids the lee shore of Cardigan Bay which has few accessible havens in a blow.

Next, I'd head to a point/Sector 5 on the Antrim coast - Glenarm, Carnlough, Red Bay, Cushendun - from which to cross conveniently over the North Channel/Sector 6 depending on whether I was aiming for Lamlash or Gigha.....

I'd be aware of the whereabouts of rail links, should a crew change be necessary, and where I might find riggers, chandleries, sailmakers - and Reeds is good for that. I'd have the phone numbers of the various harbour offices/sailing clubs I might need, as well as the VHF Calling Frequencies..... and I'd carry a couple of extra, long mooring lines and a pair of 2m. chain loops for lying alongside a moored trawler or rough granite harbour walls, in rough weather.

There are dozens of options.

Enjoy....

I love your way of breaking it down into chunks - that's really helpful, thank you. And yes, possible public transport options is something I want to look into once we've got a broad plan in case we need to get home earlier for any reason.

 

[Suzi B]

Assuming it's a sailing boat, I wouldn't plan too much.
Just have all the options considered before you set off on each leg.
You might make Yarmouth on Day 1, or given fair wind and no issues, Swanage.
Too much planning and schedule means either motoring to keep to the plan, or wasted opportunities to press on.

On a new to me boat, I would want to be able to spend time sorting things as they inevitably arise, so I would prefer not to have too much time pressure

There are about 30 viable stops before Land's End? Rule some out on the wind direction and forecast, then see how far you can get each day.
You probably don't want to arrive in Scilly late in the day, so most people put in some dark hours out of Penzance.

A few dark hours setting off at horrid-AM can take the pressure off the end of the day. More so if you can some better tide that way.

You can run through various scenarios for each headland, either fight the tide, be well offshore or get your timing right, but basically either you pick the 6 hours of each day with favourable tide, or use the whole day and it will be against you at times. If it's not springs it won't kill you. We would be happy to crack on with an 18 hour day to do Solent to Dartmouth perhaps, but not every day.

There is a balance between cracking on and making early progress, and expecting you'll get better, sort things and the wind direction will get easier.

I think the skipper will need to kip sometimes so the second person should try to get confident with keeping watch for a couple of hours on passage. Even if you anchor every night, there may be nights when sleep isn't great.
I would not 100% rely on anchorages, there is much to be said for picking up a buoy in a nice sheltered harbour.

Fundamentally, you could face the problem of not wanting to do the next leg in a lightly crewed boat which turns out to have a few issues, if the forecast is not properly benign. You both need to be comfortable with that and have similar criteria for 'enjoying a few days in Falmouth' or whatever.

Thanks. That's all good advice and we'll definitely not be planning a fixed route. I just want to make the most of having internet access and a bit more time now to collate info. I aim to have a broad idea of the bits to plan around / be wary of and then make a document with all this other fantastic info so that we can refer to it as it becomes relevant.