A Williams Jet Rib Guide

[jrudge]

I have had 2 Williams ribs.

Whenever anything is posted on the forum there are few if any informed replies, and most engineers wont touch them ( In Mallorca anyway) and say call Williams !

The forum has various opinions on Jet Ribs - which having owned them I can understand - but we all like different things !

I thought it might be useful to create a guide listing all i have learned so far in running them in the hope it might help others are a later date.

I have had a 2014 and 2008 Williams 325. The 2008 is a 750 cc model and the 2014 an 850.

The 750 Webber engine is no longer made. There is not much real difference. The 850 includes a hi/lo power switch, an auto greaser for the prop shaft and a towing valve to stop water ingress to the engine when being towed.

Pros and Cons

Pro

- good looking boat seen as a universal accessory
- no prop to catch kids ( this would stop me buying any outboard under any circumstances so it huge for me)
- Williams and their dealers are universally helpful and knowledgable
- Parts from Williams arrive next day and are the same price as anywhere else. They may not be cheap, but you dont pay more to buy from them and it fits when it arrives
- Fast and fun

Cons

- if the sea is not flat the ride is very hard / wet ( post 2015 there is a dryer hull I gather)
- if you were in an area without a Williams dealer I would think twice
- skip ropes etc up the drive can take time and effort to remove
- they cost a lot!
- no one other than Williams really want to repair them
- from new they sound like a bag of nails - this is however perfectly normal!


Spares

The 750 engine is no longer made. No one I can find has second hand spares so you are into new parts. Just order them from Williams. They have it all in stock and nothing I have bought ( even down to steering wheels and filters) is any more expensive than anywhere else - sometimes cheaper.

Parts catalogs here

https://cdn.williamsjettenders.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/WJT-TurboJet-2018-Rev-01.pdf

you can find older ones on line as well. Google is your friend.

Engine Parts Manual

http://www.lncmarine.com/weber-motor/files/2011/11/103666_Spars_Parts_EN_Williams.pdf


These guys in the USA sell Webber parts, but they are really no cheaper than Williams and you have to pay duty and VAT. It is useful to see prices which Williams dont publish .

http://www.weberpower.com/weber-engine-parts.html

Engine Service Manual

https://manualzz.com/doc/1860581/weber-automotive-mpe-750-turbo-marine-service-manual

 

[jrudge]

Servicing

Servicing is simple and takes about an hour. See Service manual above. DIY or get someone to do it. Oil ( see below), plugs, fuel and oil filter and cover it in WD40. There is an anode on the back but it does not wear as the boat is not in the water for long enough.

The engine is 109hp from 750cc - so 145 bhp per litre.

A Porche 993 only has 76 per litre and a Ferrari 458 is only 133 bhp per litre so the engine is highly stressed!

Oil changes are CRITICAL as is using the correct fully synthetic oil.



Things in the Impeller

This is a fact of life. Old fishing net, old rope, plastic bags and your own ski line.

There are two ways to solve this ( neither are in the manual)

1. Lift it, remove the grill on the bottom ( 2 x cross head screws) and then fish / cut out the debris. This will only work for small things. If a ski line you can take 20 feet of it in in the blink of an eye. Pulling it out will not work. It melts to the shaft. 

2. Remove the jet unit.

This takes about 45 mins to remove and replace. You disconnect the bucket, undo the 4 retaining bolts ( you need long sockets - short ones cant get over the stud) pull the whole thing out, get rid of the mess, and put it back together again.


What goes wrong?

This is my list and what was done about it .


Sterring cable stiff

Can happen, especially if not washed off. It can free itself in the water, but if not it needs replacement. There is a special tool Williams use to feed the cable through and I would just ask the local Williams agent to do it.

Water in Fuel - Bang

I have had 2 engine failures under warranty. I met someone else in Cala Dor who had the same. They tend to drop a valve and water in the fuel is blamed. My second engine lasted 40 minutes. They had changed everything other than the fuel so whilst not conclusive it seems plausible.

I need to look at a water separator I suspect if you can get one small enough.

Exhaust Manifold - Sea Water Leak

This was expensive!

The boat was losing power and eventually did 4000 rpm. I identified the turbo has stuck. Free off and basically fine.

Happened again.

Taken to bits. Turbo salt covered. Clean. Back together. Suspected build up over time. Wrong happened again .

Two options (a) the spray head ( sea water cooled) about £300 or the manifold ( sea water cooled) £2000. Changed the head first. No . Bugger! Change manifold. Sorted.

If you dont flush the engine after use ( the instructions are clear!) then sea water eventually corrodes the jacket. There is no anode in the exhaust system presumably as it is not kept in the water and is designed to be flushed.

Flush after every use.

The symptom is Turbo whine. You can always here a little at low rpm, but if it noticeably increases then something is going past the turbo and that something is sea water.

The Williams way of replacing this is to remove the engine. This then needs the rib lifting, and the engine mounts replacing. I did it in situ - it is tricky and it took me 4.5 hours, but it can be done if you remove the battery and solenoids on the left side and dont mind that a few bolts take some ingenuity to get on and off. I doubt removing the engine is any faster - probably longer to be honest - but it would be an overall simpler job .

Speedo / Tacho

The speedo and taco are know to fail - especially post winter.

The official Williams ones (from memory) are about £100 for the tacho and £180 for the speedo. The 2008 ones are obsolete and you need a wiring adapter kit. I bought mine on eBay from china as whilst unbranded a complete set of speedo ( GPS - the original is paddle wheel) with heading, tacho and fuel gauge was £100 delivered in 4 days from China. Fitting all three took an hour.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GPS-Spee...415552?hash=item33e6da9040:g:rmcAAOSwCQxaysEq

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Tach...170202?hash=item33e455f35a:g:uhMAAOSwLe5avKW2

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universa...771147?hash=item4b409ff1cb:g:M40AAOSwfztbXaOb

The fuel gauge is the USA standard - 240-33. I also replaced the fuel sender ( from Williams) as the gauge was mildly inaccurate.

Rear “Wings”

The wings either side of the drivers seat can only be stepped on in the facelift model that has the small backrests for the mid seat passengers. The new versions are not compatible with the former model and if stepped on ( it really looks like a step) the GRP will craze. No matter now many no step signs you put on it someone will step on it. Any one you buy will have crazed wings and I would not bother to get it repaired! Yes I got mine repaired. Yes they are now crazed again!

Upholstery

The upholstery wears and gets water logged. A new set from Williams is roughly £1000. MJ did mine to match the boat for £300.


Tubes

My tubes failed a few months after the boat ( 2008) was bought. The end caps both sides failed. I assumed the glue had failed so decided not to repair. I got a very good second hand set from boats.co.uk in cala dor as i needed it there and then, however new PVC tubes are only £1k and £2k for hypalon which i thought reasonable given they are totally unique to Williams and they could simply name a figure. Changing the tubes takes about 40 minutes.

The grab handles are not very strong, and whilst fine as handholds will come off is used as fender tie points or used by people to drag themselves out of the water.


Lifting on Paserelle

If using the paserelle to lift the rib I have two tips …

a. put the throttle fully forward. A strap got caught and almost ripped it off. It cant if fully forward.

b. buy a removable steering wheel boss on eBay. I bent the first wheel ( which was to be changed anyway) as the straps got stuck behind it.



I appreciate that the above will put most people off! The engines were under warranty and the exhaust manifold was hence the only extremely unwelcome bill.

Take away one thing. FLUSH IT OUT


Extras

The 2014 rib had a depth sounder factory fitted. It never worked despite being replaced several times, and it is too small to see anyway. I would not bother.

I retro fitted a Fussion 205 unit. Took a few hours. It sounds great as the area under the front seat acts as a boom box, but if you like going fast dont bother. Anything about 15 mph and you cant hear a thing!

 

[Scubaboy79]

This is brilliant.

The annoying thing about the wings (which are indeed very flimsy and craze if you even look at them) is that they're exactly the same height as the bathing platform on our P62. So all you need is an ill-timed wave or to be a little hasty with the passarelle as you lift it and the wing hits the bathing platform and adds another scratch. For this reason, when we're at anchor we always tie our Williams to the mid-cleat to keep it clear.

 

[jrudge]

I don't have that on my S58, but was at the back of a friends T47 a few days ago and same thing .

I forgot to mention the big metal ring on the front. This is a bathing platform killer. On the S65 the tender was next to the boat Big wash and I watched as the metal loop smashed a hole in the side of the platform trims.

I have tried rubber covers and all sorts but I could not get anything to stay on so I have a very long line to keep it away from the boat or like you put it on the side.

 

[MedMilo]

This is great, thanks J, and as the owner of now my fourth Williams I'd concur with all your points. I have a 2015 and it is indeed a bit drier than my previous ones. On balance I think the boats are great - last week I drove my 325 from Marina D'Arechi, 12 nm across the Bay of Salerno to Amalfi with wife, daughter and a folding bike on board! (day out while the mothership was having water pump replaced). Took 45 mins and didn't miss a beat; not many small tenders would cope with that kind of trip! As you say, if you flush, maintain and service them religiously they're pretty good. Apparently the new Sportjet range are even more reliable with the Rotax engines.., think I feel my fifth Williams mightn't be too far off...

Incidentally, have often wondered how may hours the Weber engines are good for, your 2008 must have done quite a few?

 

[MrB]

Great write-up, thanks J. :encouragement:

 

[jrudge]

Hi miles.

It has only done 140 hours so not many really.

But i suspect the last owner did not flush it .... as i best most dont other than when they leave the boat!

I am now of course a reformed character and flush it using Evian !


The 345 looks really nice - but at £35k odd it should do of course!

Last year we did some smashing day trips on it in Ibiza and this year did a long trip from Andraxt so they can be a lot of fun.

I hope to head to Italy next year so may bump into you

 

[MedMilo]

Ah okay, well my 2015 has already done 160 hrs so now well run in!

Have done a couple of years in Amalfi now and will probably head further east to Gouvia in Corfu for a few seasons in June 2019. Doing a Corfu reccy in Oct half term so will keep you posted. S65 just awesome, done 10 weeks so far this summer (Aeolians, Sicily, Neapolitan islands etc). Can fill you in on what's what as and when you're ready...

Hi miles.

It has only done 140 hours so not many really.

But i suspect the last owner did not flush it .... as i best most dont other than when they leave the boat!

I am now of course a reformed character and flush it using Evian !


The 345 looks really nice - but at £35k odd it should do of course!

Last year we did some smashing day trips on it in Ibiza and this year did a long trip from Andraxt so they can be a lot of fun.

I hope to head to Italy next year so may bump into you

 

[PalmaTarga]

Thanks for this very useful thread. It's surprising how little user information there is online considering the amount of TurboJets you see in the water. I'm also glad to hear that it *should* sound like a bag of nails!

We've had our 2008 285 for this season. It was included in the deal when buying the boat, so know little with regards to how well it was looked after by the previous owner. I love it, but can't say I have full faith in it. I am very keen to get it upto standard as the alternative on our Targa 43 would probably only take an 8hp max.

Both the speedo and tachometer are shot, so can't determine how many hours it's done. Is there a way to get this info via the ECU or are they solely stored on the tach? When you installed the tachometer did you have to calibrate it?

Williams Balearics have been helpful whenever I've had questions. TenderWorks in Palma seem to be well respected by many of the superyacht crew, and having spoken to them can refurbish turbos for around €300-500 depending on condition.

Ours has on a couple of occasions recently lost power (possibly dropping to limp mode) if the ride gets too bouncy. It's temporary and usually comes back to life pretty quickly. I can't work out if it's electrical (possibly a HT coil) or it's going into limp mode due to the exhaust temp as you discovered in your previous thread and I need to clear the manifold of salt. I haven't been back to the boat since so haven't had the chance to check. It's occasional, so the chances of getting an engineer to look at it and the problem arising at the same time are slim.

Regarding your pasarelle lift advice, I would also advise leaving the throttle forwards when winching into a garage also as the jet bucket casting hangs slightly below the hull and will take the weight/get caught as it rides across the rollers.

To prevent water in the fuel, I wonder if an outboard water separator like this would be useful? https://www.ebay.com/itm/HOT-Boat-F...-Separator-Mercury-35-60494-1-A-/292627585526

 

[jrudge]

Thanks for this very useful thread. It's surprising how little user information there is online considering the amount of TurboJets you see in the water. I'm also glad to hear that it *should* sound like a bag of nails!

We've had our 2008 285 for this season. It was included in the deal when buying the boat, so know little with regards to how well it was looked after by the previous owner. I love it, but can't say I have full faith in it. I am very keen to get it upto standard as the alternative on our Targa 43 would probably only take an 8hp max.

Both the speedo and tachometer are shot, so can't determine how many hours it's done. Is there a way to get this info via the ECU or are they solely stored on the tach? When you installed the tachometer did you have to calibrate it?

Williams Balearics have been helpful whenever I've had questions. TenderWorks in Palma seem to be well respected by many of the superyacht crew, and having spoken to them can refurbish turbos for around €300-500 depending on condition.

Ours has on a couple of occasions recently lost power (possibly dropping to limp mode) if the ride gets too bouncy. It's temporary and usually comes back to life pretty quickly. I can't work out if it's electrical (possibly a HT coil) or it's going into limp mode due to the exhaust temp as you discovered in your previous thread and I need to clear the manifold of salt. I haven't been back to the boat since so haven't had the chance to check. It's occasional, so the chances of getting an engineer to look at it and the problem arising at the same time are slim.

Regarding your pasarelle lift advice, I would also advise leaving the throttle forwards when winching into a garage also as the jet bucket casting hangs slightly below the hull and will take the weight/get caught as it rides across the rollers.

To prevent water in the fuel, I wonder if an outboard water separator like this would be useful? https://www.ebay.com/itm/HOT-Boat-F...-Separator-Mercury-35-60494-1-A-/292627585526

Williams can read the hours from the ecu.

I would imagine the Ecu will store error codes that Williams can read.

There are a lot of sensors on he engine and sensors always go wrong so at a total guess I would think that could be the issue.

The turbo should not habitually salt up. This was a theory by the engineer to explain what happened before it happened again.

If you remove the black air box ( single Allen key under the charge cooler ) you can spin the turbo by hand and if should spin freely.

You can also remove the exhaust hose and take a pic of the hot side with your phone.

The tachometer can be calibrated per the number of cylinders on the engine. It is a simple process.

Thx Re the water seperator. Outboard water separator throws up lots. Just need to look and see if there is space.

 

[PalmaTarga]

Great info again, thanks! I will get Williams to run a diagnostic on the engine and will be interested to hear how you get on with the separator if you can go ahead with it.

I will order the new dials now and look forward to fitting them in a couple of weeks

For info, the Palma Yacht Crew page on FB has been of some help. There are obviously a lot more Williams over there than in the UK, so could get some answers from other peoples experiences. One guy couldn't get over 4000 rpm, which turns out was through salt build up from not flushing enough. https://www.facebook.com/groups/palmayachtcrew/permalink/10155459677440474/

 

[benjenbav]

@jrudge - Great stuff, but all of the issues seem to be varieties of the quirks you could get on any equivalent fast-rib tender EXCEPT the dreaded 'Things in the impellor'. If I were Williams I would put huge efforts into developing a cartridge system for the bucket and impellor assembly so that you could avoid a 45 minute strip down and simply plug and play a replacement unit. Probably unrealistic but if it could be done it would be hard to argue against.

 

[jrudge]

I complete agree - given stuff gets in the impeller quite regularly and one like fishing line can be hard to see.

 

[jrudge]

Great info again, thanks! I will get Williams to run a diagnostic on the engine and will be interested to hear how you get on with the separator if you can go ahead with it.

I will order the new dials now and look forward to fitting them in a couple of weeks

For info, the Palma Yacht Crew page on FB has been of some help. There are obviously a lot more Williams over there than in the UK, so could get some answers from other peoples experiences. One guy couldn't get over 4000 rpm, which turns out was through salt build up from not flushing enough. https://www.facebook.com/groups/palmayachtcrew/permalink/10155459677440474/

Interesting read.

I suspect that he actually had the same issue as me - he has just not run it enough to know.

The salt build up from flushing is in the cooling jacket. it does not touch the turbo. there has to be a cooling leak to cover it in salt and seize it.

 

[NGM]

thanks Jeremy, very handy write up. As you say amazing how little maintenance information is available.

 

[Eren]

Thanks for the great post.

I owned a 285 for 6 years. With very careful look after, she served without any problems. The manifold was dead at the end of the 6th year, which I find acceptable. By the way, I flush with desalinator mix every time I am leaving for long and I think it helps a lot to save the manifold.

Now I have a 385, which I bought second hand. I have very little info about servicing and usage history. We do a lot of overnighting at anchor. We do not lift off the tender at night as we usually come late from restaurant and leave again early in the morning for buying bread etc. Therefore sometimes the tender ends up staying in the sea for several days, without daily flushing. I wonder if salty water still corrodes the manifold while the boat is in water or does the corrosion reaction start when the boat is lifted out and the salty water drains from the cooling veins and leftover salt meets with air? Otherwise flushing everyday seems irrational to me if the boat is almost always in contact with sea water. I will be glad to hear your views on this.

A second question would be about the tubes. Even though I read several times at this forum that the tubes are cheap, I received a quote of EUR 3.900 without VAT and transport from the local Williams dealer in Montenegro, where my boat is berthed. Total bill will end up above EUR 5.000 when VAT and transport will be added. I suspect that the dealer adds too much margin. Are there any known dealers to you, probably in UK, where I can order and arrange the shipment myself? Will be grateful for your inputs.

 

[jrudge]

Re tubes just contact Williams in the U.K. The 325 tubes are ( roughy ) £1k for pvc and £2k for hypalon both I believe plus vat.

Re salt. I suspect it is just time and a galvanic process. So just rinse when you lift it - there is anyway little alternative !

 

[Eren]

Re tubes just contact Williams in the U.K. The 325 tubes are ( roughy ) £1k for pvc and £2k for hypalon both I believe plus vat.

Re salt. I suspect it is just time and a galvanic process. So just rinse when you lift it - there is anyway little alternative !

Thanks! I will contact Williams UK.

 

[PalmaTarga]

TenderWorks in Palma have just contacted me. They are now offering a salt away service. This is what I received (and agreed to let me share). It's a 24 hour process which can be done on site or in situ.

160 Euros. We use a salt away solution and then we plumb two pipes into the cooling system. A pump sends the solution up and around the engine and then deposits back again in the container where it is filtered a pumped back through the system. We are the only people to do it once the island and the only other person I know who do this is Williams in Dubai. Due to the heat the salt crystallizes so quickly a simple fresh water flush won’t keep your engine salt free. The solution is safe and non damaging, it also coats the engine to prevent salt build up in the future.

 

[vas]

The solution is safe and non damaging, it also coats the engine to prevent salt build up in the future.

wonder what this magic solution is so that I can use it to flush my heat exchangers and not go again through the hassle of dismantling, rodding and replacing o-rings!

1. dissolve and remove salts
2. coat and protect

using the same liquid?


V