Does anyone ever do man not-overboard practice?

RunAgroundHard

RunAgroundHard

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thinwater said:
The OP worded the question strangely, but in fact he makes an excellent point. If you fall off the roof of a tall building the recovery plan involves black clothes and flowers. My climbing partner would occasionally comment, in full seriousness, that "this would be a good time not to fall." Mountaineering, like ocean sailing, is not like gym climbing or dinghy sailing in the harbor. Your first belay should always be not falling. This is instinctive to experienced climbers; good movement skills and a plan.

Leave the cockpit frequently while sailing. Every day. There is no other way to learn all of the handholds, the motion of the boat, and to stay comfortable moving about the deck. Pilots and climbers that don't fly or climb frequently become unsafe. Use the opportunity to inspect gear and enjoy the view.

Practice using tethers in both fair and moderate weather. Reef. Change sails.
  • If anything snags or can catch on a sheet during a tack, fix it. Learn how to get to every location easily. If the tether is in the way you are doing it wrong or it is rigged wrong. Fix it while the weather is nice and the sun is up.
  • Can you go over the rail anywhere if clipped short? Move the jackline as needed.
  • There may be a place where a jackline cannot keep you on board. Have good holds for both hands and focus on what you are doing.
  • Have good, short clip points at all work stations, like the mast or back of the cockpit. Most sailors fall off when they are working at a fixed point and are not focused on holding on. Very few sailors fall off when moving on deck. Instead, they are focused on reefing or a problem with lowering a sail, for example. Or perhaps they are landing a big fish, securing the dinghy underway, or fooling with an outboard. Falls out of the back of the cockpit are common even in fair weather.
  • Practice clipping and unclipping. You will occasionally need to clip around something when you planned poorly.
  • Leave the tether on while you sail, even if not clipped. Does it bother you? Hint: wrap the long tether behind your back when not in active use).
  • Be up front during a tack or jibe. This teaches you to keep you tether under the sheets!
  • Don't clip the spare tether to your harness when not in use; that negates the quick release (or even one-clip release) function--clip it to the main clip or the other tether.
  • Good shoes. Not all gym shoes/Crocs/sandals are equal. Let's skip the barefoot debate.
  • Gloves. In wet weather gloves will give a much safer grip on shrouds and stainless. You won't be injured or let go when it hurts.
Inspect all of the handholds. If you can any way possibly damamge them, they suck. Add more where needed. The lifelines are never primary hand holds.

Watch other crew members move on deck. Are they well coordinated? Do they have situational awareness? How do they react to a bump? Some people are safe and relaxed on deck, some never move well and perhaps should never leave the cockpit unless the boat is anchored. Are you SURE there is no circumstance when they will need to?

The OP was right. There is a lot to learn about not falling off. One of my greatest fears is simply tripping over my own feet and falling out of the back of the cockpit like an idiot. I'm not worried about falling off when I'm paying attention.
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That is quite similar to what the pod cast is saying, but your list is far more succinct. One thing the pod cast said which struck a chord with me, in how I plan work in a very dangerous situation: plan the activity, discuss the activity, know where the hold on points, tether points are and how crew will use them to conduct the task. The planning part should remove any surprises and improve the probability of staying onboard.
 
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penberth3

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Rappey said:
It would seem the reality of trying to get someone back on board is not even close to practicing it therefore is it really worth practicing as there are so many variables.
I came across an article where a decent sized yacht threw a crewmate overboard to test mob drill. Can't remember the exact time but it was something like 35 mins to get him back onboard with a fit experienced crew in the solent. The conclusion was dont fall overboard at sea, you will die.
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Exactly. The typical MOB drills are no more than a boat handling exercise. Nobody can claim they're competent unless they've recovered a full weight life-size dummy. And most yachts won't have the gear to do this anyway - if anyone's tempted to bang on about halyards etc, save your fingers!
 
thinwater

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RunAgroundHard said:
That is quite similar to what the pod cast is saying, but your list is far more succinct. One thing the pod cast said which struck a chord with me, in how I plan work in a very dangerous situation: plan the activity, discuss the activity, know where the hold on points, tether points are and how crew will use them to conduct the task. The planning part should remove any surprises and improve the probability of staying onboard.
Click to expand...

That is quite similar to how a climber approaches a lead (a climb where he is moving above the belay point, placing anchors as he goes. He identifies the rest points, where he should just climb and get through it, and where he can place anchors (and what gear those anchors will require). If the climb is new to you there is guesswork involved, but you always have a plan. You don't just cast off.
 
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OP is quiter right on a largish boat in cold water away from land. Overboard is death. Now my sailing is different. Water not cold. Boat small with crew and easy to get back on to. (stern ladder) Sailing in enclosed waters where one could hope to swim to safety. So it is desirable then to practice turning the boat around to pick up a MOB. It is a function of boat control and is very useful in retrieving hats. So in our local case MOB practice is worth while. As is line throwing. Spotting the victim etc.
Last race tomorrow then home for the winter lay up. (after a good season) ol'will
 
thinwater

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MoodySabre said:
I have run a couple of MOB recovery practice sessions. The only sensible conclusion is don’t go overboard.
Most people carry a horseshoe and a throw line and perhaps something extra but in any kind of seaway or bad weather these are very marginal.
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Two things always jump out a me:

  • In cool/cold water areas the MOB has limited time and will not be capable of helping.
  • Most people sail as couples. Very likely the more active sailor is the one that fell in, leaving the rescue to be done by the
    • smaller ...
    • less experienced sailor.
All of the methods that describe multiple crew are out the window. Can the weaker crewman maneuver the boat AND hoist a limp body aboard all their onesie? Very, very unlikely.
 
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srm

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MoodySabre said:
I have run a couple of MOB recovery practice sessions. The only sensible conclusion is don’t go overboard.
Most people carry a horseshoe and a throw line and perhaps something extra but in any kind of seaway or bad weather these are very marginal.
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The only time I have sailed in the Solent was during a YM prep and exam course, 5 days in November. One fine evening, with light wind and no significant motion, in the dark, our instructor dropped the horseshoe and light over the side. I was appointed spotter. I could see the flashing light for about three waves, then just a glow through a wave, then only when the light happened to flash on the top of a wave. We did manage to recover the horseshoe, but it was very difficult to keep track of that light.

After that I had no trust in flashing MOB lights unless at the top of a tall dahn buoy pole.

On a similar theme, working in the Persian Gulf we had to pick up a current meter string. We had laid it 4 weeks earlier and had the Decca co-ordinates. The string was marked by a large, new, orange buoy of the type used by fishermen. There was a bit of a swell running. It took over an hour after arriving at the co-ordinates to find the buoy with the whole crew of our rig supply ship as lookouts in very good visibility and bright sunlight. Part of the problem was the inherent errors of the Decca system. However, this brought home just how difficult it is to see something amongst the waves even with a good height of eye from on top of the supply ship's bridge. A MOB horseshoe and human head would be so much smaller.

As I used to say when briefing charterers "you do not fall over the side".
 
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mattonthesea

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thinwater said:
Two hings always jump out a me:

  • In cool/cold water areas the MOB has limited time and will not be capable of helping.
  • Most people sail as couples. Very likely the more active sailor is the one that fell in, leaving the rescue to be done by the
    • smaller ...
    • less experienced sailor.
All of the methods that describe multiple crew are out the window. Can the weaker crewman maneuver the boat AND hoist a limp body aboard all their onesie? Very, very unlikely.
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We sail as a couple. My attitude is that I am a solo sailor. The difference is that if I go overboard then two of us are in trouble!

As mentioned above I go to the mast regularly and so am confident in doing it. I just don't like the soaking I get when going upwind 😦
 
Roberto

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thinwater said:
  • Most people sail as couples. Very likely the more active sailor is the one that fell in, leaving the rescue to be done by the
    • smaller ...
    • less experienced sailor.
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And if the "smaller and less experienced sailor" is someone obliging to go sailing because of some sort of marital agreement, he/she might as well jump on the occasion of the other one having fallen overboard to make sure autopilot is ON and pour him/herself a glass of some recomforting beverage.
 
graham

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I sometimes watch school yachts gliding past the"mob" fender at 2 knots and hooking it up with a boat hook as they pass.

I hope the instructors make it clear that the yacht must be stopped and what a massive weight a soggy human really is.
 
RunAgroundHard

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graham said:
I sometimes watch school yachts gliding past the"mob" fender at 2 knots and hooking it up with a boat hook as they pass.

I hope the instructors make it clear that the yacht must be stopped and what a massive weight a soggy human really is.
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As part of coding, at the renewal, picking up a person out the water has to be demonstrated.
 
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mattonthesea

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graham said:
I sometimes watch school yachts gliding past the"mob" fender at 2 knots and hooking it up with a boat hook as they pass.

I hope the instructors make it clear that the yacht must be stopped and what a massive weight a soggy human really is.
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In a swell in the Med a few years ago I was part of an informal flotilla. An other boat lost a fender o/b. An ADHD crew member said she'd get it and dived over the side!

A freshly qualified DS crew knew exactly what to do. She grabbed the plastic, extendable boat hook, went to the stays and attempted to hook her in. The boat hook broke! So the DS went to the sugar scoop where she her seven stone was immediately hauled into the water by the other's 15 stone. So two o/b. It appeared that the skipper just let this happen but he did eventually get them both to climb back aboard.

That evening another boat practised retrieving a mob while at anchor using all the techniques that they had learnt on all the courses between them. Their conclusion was that, on a high freeboard AWB, and in calm water, and with a compliant crew, the techniques did not work with the equipment available on a chartered yacht.

Sobering thought
 
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srm

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The only convincing MOB recovery I have seen (and I used to practise these things when a YMI and charter skipper) was on an RN mine countermeasures vessel. As it was a PR demo they dispensed with the standard dummy normally used and threw a diver overboard while making way. The navigating officer had control of the vessel.
graham said:
I sometimes watch school yachts gliding past the"mob" fender at 2 knots and hooking it up with a boat hook as they pass.
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Regarding recovery at 2 knots - we would go around again, and again, which on more than one occasion got close to a mutiny. Part of the problem was the boat, a classic cruiser/racer that would keep going under flogging sails so difficult to fully stop unless almost head to wind.
 
thinwater

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RunAgroundHard said:
As part of coding, at the renewal, picking up a person out the water has to be demonstrated.
Click to expand...
And if they sail as a couple, with no one at the helm during the final approach or helping with the pickup.

For me, the only method that works, if I have to pick something up heavy, is to heave to just right and drift down. But timing is critical.
 
thinwater

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srm said:
The only convincing MOB recovery I have seen (and I used to practice these things when a YMI and charter skipper) was on an RN mine countermeasures vessel. As it was a PR demo they dispensed with the standard dummy normally used and threw a diver overboard while making way. The navigating officer had control of the vessel.

Regarding recovery at 2 knots - we would go around again, and again, which on more than one occasion got close to a mutiny. Part of the problem was the boat, a classic cruiser/racer that would keep going under flogging sails so difficult to fully stop unless almost head to wind.
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Doesn't that suggest that it was the wrong method for that type of boat? I think that is the first take away.

If you think that was difficult for those students, imagine a multihull where the helm might be 10-15 feet from where you will pass the MOB. Now imagine it singlehanded, with no one at the helm. It just does not work. The boat will sail away before you have time to more than say "good bye."

On the second approach perhaps a different method would make more sense, one where they are hove to. Se how that works. In fact, the students need to learn more than one method.

--

Which takes us back to "don't fall off."
 
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