Standing rigging corroding after 2 years

[geem]

Our new rigging., all less than 12 months old, had signs of surface rust. We had a couple of days of heavy rain and now the surface rust has gone and we are left with nice shiny rigging again. I was getting a little concerned until that point. Interestly, the wire I replaced in 2021 on the mizzen mast never went rusty and remains nice and shiny. That was sourced from Jimmy Green .marine.
My rigger friend here in Antigua tells me there are only two sources of rigging wire manufacturing left. Those being South Korea and China

 

[Refueler]

Our new rigging., all less than 12 months old, had signs of surface rust. We had a couple of days of heavy rain and now the surface rust has gone and we are left with nice shiny rigging again. I was getting a little concerned until that point. Interestly, the wire I replaced in 2021 on the mizzen mast never went rusty and remains nice and shiny. That was sourced from Jimmy Green .marine.
My rigger friend here in Antigua tells me there are only two sources of rigging wire manufacturing left. Those being South Korea and China

I am in China now with my local Office .,.. can always ask if they can supply !!

 

[geem]

I am in China now with my local Office .,.. can always ask if they can supply !!

Nope. Hoping to get 10 years and many thousands of miles before we change. The last lot did 9 years and over 37,000nm before strand failure

 

[Refueler]

Nope. Hoping to get 10 years and many thousands of miles before we change. The last lot did 9 years and over 37,000nm before strand failure

It was a bit of a joke - but seriously - my office would know who to contact !

Some years ago - with another of my previous companies we would be looking after Russian source material - not now though due situation... and that company is mothballed.

 

[geem]

It was a bit of a joke - but seriously - my office would know who to contact !

Some years ago - with another of my previous companies we would be looking after Russian source material - not now though due situation... and that company is mothballed.

I wouldn't buy Chinese if I could help it. The Jimmy Green stuff was from South Korea. No idea where the 12mm wire for the main mast came from as it said Netherlands on the drum!

 

[Refueler]

I wouldn't buy Chinese if I could help it. The Jimmy Green stuff was from South Korea. No idea where the 12mm wire for the main mast came from as it said Netherlands on the drum!

We have connections in Korea and most Metals fabrication is a certain well known Company - which in fact is Govt controlled. As to whether its better than Chinese - is doubtful. In Far East when a Country costs increase - its usual that production moves .... Vietnam / Korea have benefited greatly from such.

 

[Halo]

Perhaps the wire is out of spec. Most scrap yards have a hand held xrf spectrometer which tells you the spec of a metal instantly. I would take a corroded wire to one and see if they will tell you what spec the wire is. Try and get them to test a magnetic section. If they say it’s out of spec then pay a university to give you a report and if the material is faulty you should have serious leverage over the manufacturer who will not want to face a mass recall

 

[William_H]

Life of stainless steel rigging wire? This is such a vague area of concern. I know of 3 boats at least in our club where ss rigging has just let go. Often I think at the bottom swage. Age yes definitely for the 20 to 30 ft boats in the 20 plus years and in one case at least after long period of mast up on mooring in activity. A fleet (10) 10ft dinghies I cared for had strand breakage after some years despite long periods of stowage un rigged. When my experience is coupled with apparent insurance company concerns re rigging wire life I am convinced that there is a case for replacement of rigging wire at 15to 20 years. I have done so on my little boat but think it is time for replacement again. One thing for sure is that sudden wire failure means death of the mast so is very expensive. ol'will

 

[AnnelyR]

Perhaps the wire is out of spec. Most scrap yards have a hand held xrf spectrometer which tells you the spec of a metal instantly. I would take a corroded wire to one and see if they will tell you what spec the wire is. Try and get them to test a magnetic section. If they say it’s out of spec then pay a university to give you a report and if the material is faulty you should have serious leverage over the manufacturer who will not want to face a mass recall

This is a great idea, I didn't know that scrap yards can do that. I will definitely try that, thank you!

 

[ylop]

Given the relatively short time period - 1/5 of the life expectancy - it could be argued that the fault may have been there to start with (unless there are signs of misuse). Corrosion is clearly weakening the wire and therefore reducing its fitness for purpose. We would be happy to contribute 20%, i.e. the benefit that we have enjoyed, and receive 80% towards the new rigging.

Are you wanting an 80% discount on a "re-rig" or 80% off the materials. Those will be two quite different numbers.

This is a great idea, I didn't know that scrap yards can do that. I will definitely try that, thank you!

You need a proper scrap merchant not a vehicle dismantler. How happy/helpful they will be if they aren't getting to buy scrap from you might be an interesting question. Perhaps its the sort of situation that "cash" can get you an answer to. But they won't be metallurgists or analytical chemists so their "findings" might not be exactly what you want to hear, and certainly wont qualify as expert witnesses. if you are serious about finding the fault and pursuing it - you would take to a consultant metallurgist, some universities will have someone who does this sort of thing. They will of course want paid.

The reality is you try that first. If that proves unsuccessful then if the op feels he has a genuine claim he Sue’s them in the small claims court. It’s simple but you have to try an resolve the matter first , which I’m sure you would always advise is the best policy.

Steveeasy

But for a one-man-band rigging company that may not be helpful. First if he defends the action you will need to have a decent case (which means the costs above which might not be recoverable) but also will depend on the exact T&Cs of his contract with the OP. Did he recommend the material to use, the supplier etc, or did the OP ask for the lowest cost etc. He'll have liability insurance to cover damage he does, but it might not extend to supply of questionable product quality. Even if you win, he may not actually have any cash to pay you... then you are into the hassle of instructing bailiffs etc. For the value of the work its probably not worth it.

I do wonder if we could use the expertise (or the lack of it) as an argument - i.e. being a customer with no expert knowledge against parties that possess that knowledge - one says you need new rigging, the other (manufacturer) says it's entirely normal and presumably still okay for another 7-8 years - how can we tell who's right? Perhaps that could work in our favour if we ended up taking the Claims Court route? It's unreasonable that one has to become an expert in order to determine the right course of action, as seems to be the situation without a regulatory body.

I wouldn't place much hope that (a) the court thinks yacht owners should not have the expertise (nor the need to engage persons with the expertise) to maintain their vessels (b) the court will accept that there is actually anything wrong with the rigging justifying replacement (c) if it does conclude replacement is necessary that it is a defective product.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Having fabricated stainless steel fittings from 316 you need to be careful of any mild steel contamination when also fabricating in mild steel.

Having a mild steel boat with lots of stainless fitting it ease for me to get mild steel grinding dust on my stainless an especially any stainless wire rope.

I would clean it with oxalic acid or phosphoric acid to remove any possible contamination if that is the case.

Do remember its stain less not stain free steel.

I keep mine polished to keep it shiny and free of any contamination

 

[AnnelyR]

You need a proper scrap merchant not a vehicle dismantler. How happy/helpful they will be if they aren't getting to buy scrap from you might be an interesting question. Perhaps its the sort of situation that "cash" can get you an answer to. But they won't be metallurgists or analytical chemists so their "findings" might not be exactly what you want to hear, and certainly wont qualify as expert witnesses. if you are serious about finding the fault and pursuing it - you would take to a consultant metallurgist, some universities will have someone who does this sort of thing. They will of course want paid.

I visited a local scrap yard and they were very helpful. Chap with an electronic analyser scanned the wire and it displayed the chemical contents of the material. Chap confirmed it was 316 without a doubt. £1.60 per kg towards the new rigging is an option!