How to deal with helpful people?

ylop said:

Which assumes some sort of nautical language background…

Click to expand...

In a marina or yacht harbour I don’t think it is unreasonable to assume that someone ready to take your lines is either a boat owner or someone with some sort of boating connection. Town harbours are a different matter and it takes some effort to work out if they are boaty or just a passer-by on their way to buy a sandwich.

Baltic box moorings can be challenging in a cross wind if there is no adjacent boat, and it is rare to arrive without someone coming to help by either holding the bow or taking a line. I will generally go to help in UK marinas, but often as much to protect my own craft as to be helpful.

SvenH said:

Today it happened again: A soon to be neighbor wanted to help us during tying up and stepped of his boat to take our dock line...
...which he then used to stop our boat, ruining our approach, resulting in a bump, luckily without damage.

How to deal with these inherently friendly but useless people?
Do you shout "thanks but no thanks" at the top of your lungs, so they will hear it?
Ignore them?

Even when solo I'd rather be without help and go my own way, but this is a concept that half of boaters do not seem to comprehend?

Click to expand...

If bows to, I found that using a bow fender is quite useful for that purpose: while you slowly get the stem in contact with the pontoon you will receive shouts of "stop! stop! back! back!"and people pushing on the pulpit, just say "I am going in contact with the pontoon" (it helps having a boat displ>5tons); keep the engine slow ahead with the rudder pushing against the finger, time to thank "helpers" anyway and arrange your mooring lines as you wish.

Clear polite indication of whether you want them to help or not. We're 2 handed or single-handed on Sweden 36 - only one place to get off the boat, as the beam is all in the middle. I usually say "we're fine thanks, but if it all goes tits up I'll change my mind!".

Clear instructions are vital. If it's someone experienced, they won't be offended. If they're not experienced, they'll need them. If they don't listen, you're stuffed!

My two memorable recent experiences.

1. Taking Arpeggio out astern from a marina berth, upwind into a slight crosswind. 2 handed. Had everything set up, allowing for prop walk. Chap offers to 'mind' the bow and bow line. At the crucial point when we need to just drive out backwards, he takes up the tension and stops the boat dead. A very direct 'word' to let go of it 'now!', and full astern, 'wrapping' the boat's widest point around the neighbouring yacht's stern saved the day. But what was going to be a neat exit looked like a marginally competent affair, all due to his 'help'.

2. Coming alongside a windward pontoon in 25-30kts at Holyhead, very little room to manoeuvre and a boat in the way meaning a steep approach was needed.. 1st attempt abandoned (after a one line had been passed), and helpers got line off smartish thank goodness. 2nd attempt got a breast line ashore to two helpers, and I was very assertive as to where it needed to go, and when to hold hard against it, so that I could spring her on. I apologised afterwards for being 'shouty' and the (it turns out very experienced) chap who'd taken my line had no problem - "You had a plan, know how your boat handles, and I needed to do as I was told".

The best I've heard is "No thanks, we need the practice.".

Avoids the problem in the nicest possible way.

Mark-1 said:

The best I've heard is "No thanks, we need the practice.".

Avoids the problem in the nicest possible way.

Click to expand...

Indeed, 'no thanks we are practising' worked for me in many hundreds of occasions on sea school yachts.

Where we are now though, if I'm shorthanded doing some light coaching with friends, on windy days I ask the marina staff for a hand. They are really good and do as I ask.

Every Christmas, we always drop off a crate of beer in their office.

Once on a French canal....we pulled up to this tent pub....and this bloke from another boat who had just moored before takes our mid ship line and hauls our boat alongside....he was big...seriously big...and despite the shallow water and twelve ton boat he pulled us up to the bank, where we made fast, walked the dog, spent the evening under canvas in the pub (with the rats)...and stayed the night onboard. Next morning I was stuck fast ...he had hauled us up a mud bank. Using nearby vessels I was able to free ourselves

johnalison said:

In a marina or yacht harbour I don’t think it is unreasonable to assume that someone ready to take your lines is either a boat owner or someone with some sort of boating connection.

Click to expand...

I can see why you’ve reached that conclusion but:
- not everyone in the marina is a mariner: friends, visitors, nosey people etc…
- not everyone who owns a boat has a clue what they are doing: there is no mandatory training; small mobo owners may be least likely to understand the challenges you have
- not everyone who knows what they are doing understands the words.

We learned a long time ago that marineros always grabbed a bow line if it was within reach so now leave them coiled on deck.

When coming alongside, my crew (wife) has centre line in hand, while standing outside the guard wires holding onto a shroud, ready to step down and cleat it. Easy enough to pass that to someone and point to which cleat we want it on. Can sort bow, stern and springs once centre line fast.

Mark-1 said:

The best I've heard is "No thanks, we need the practice.".

Avoids the problem in the nicest possible way.

Click to expand...

See post #7

PaulRainbow said:

See post #7

Click to expand...

Looks like I need some practice at reading the effing thread.

I have on several occasion had 'helpers' do the wrong thing, or more often nothing useful at all, but as one who has often sailed single-handed and/or in long-keelers or other 'challenging' craft, that is easily outweighed by those occasions when having someone help, or even just stand by in case it all goes pear-shaped, has made life easier and less stressful.

I will almost always offer help to someone coming in nearby - especially if it's e.g breezy, or they simply look nervous or unsure of themselves - and have on occasions saved them a scrape, bump or red face. I am not at all offended if they'd rather do it themselves.

I think life in general would be much easier and pleasanter if people were more often willing to help others - or even just consider others' intentions and possible difficulties - so I won't be joining any campaign to deter would-be helpers.

I would usually offer to help boats berthing in our marina, asking first, then asking where they wanted me to secure the line I was handed. At times I acted on my own initiative to avoid things going wrong, usually just holding the bow in the right position. Very occasionally I have effectively taken over the skipper's role while standing on the pontoon when no directions were given and no one appeared to know what they needed to do.
However, one time an all male crew (5 or 6 I think) came in to a narrow lane going fast and turned into a berth with the choice of either finger. I decided the safest thing to do was stand well back and let them sort out their own salvation as they obviously thought they knew what they were doing. Later two guys off the boat walked past mine with one loudly saying that it would be nice if people helped by at least taking a line.

It seemed strange that so few people would use a midship spring and engine to hold their boat quietly in position while they set up the rest of the lines at leisure. The worst offenders was a Royal Marines crew coming alongside a hammerhead with a fresh breeze blowing off. They came alongside and stopped nicely in the middle of the hammerhead. I took the bow line and secured it at the end of the finger as directed. Looking back one of their crew had secured the stern line to the other end of the hammerhead. The boat was now four or five metres off the pontoon with the two lines leading off at shallow angles. The skipper then indicated that I should haul in on the bow line to bring them in. I smiled and walked away, they were all decades younger than I was.

I was stood on the quayside at Agia Efimia having just moored up, a yacht approached as though he was going alongside, his Mrs threw me a bow line with a loop on the end and pointed at a bollard, so i put the loop over the bollard and she gave me the thumbs up, the skipper shouted at his Mrs and said i have told you before don't throw a line to anyone! then he shoved the throttle forward in a temper and shot forward, of course the boat shot forward and the bow smashed into the concrete quayside, i had to turn away so he could not see me laughing, i buggered off sharpish!

Davy_S said:

I was stood on the quayside at Agia Efimia having just moored up, a yacht approached as though he was going alongside, his Mrs threw me a bow line with a loop on the end and pointed at a bollard, so i put the loop over the bollard and she gave me the thumbs up, the skipper shouted at his Mrs and said i have told you before don't throw a line to anyone! then he shoved the throttle forward in a temper and shot forward, of course the boat shot forward and the bow smashed into the concrete quayside, i had to turn away so he could not see me laughing, i buggered off sharpish!

Click to expand...

That was my baptism of fire backing onto that key with my anchor out, having someone take my warps was a god send!

I was once that helpful person...I still feel the shame.

Clancy Moped said:

That was my baptism of fire backing onto that key with my anchor out, having someone take my warps was a god send!

Click to expand...

It can be very daunting for anyone who has never experienced it! especially late afternoon when the katabatic is blowing hard straight across as yachts are reversing, my favourite spot is watching from Maribou bar with a bottle of Alpha in front of me.

Davy_S said:

It can be very daunting for anyone who has never experienced it! especially late afternoon when the katabatic is blowing hard straight across as yachts are reversing, my favourite spot is watching from Maribou bar with a bottle of Alpha in front of me.

Click to expand...

We had the comet vomit coming in at full speed as well, from memory I put 60 meters of chain out

LittleSister said:

I think life in general would be much easier and pleasanter if people were more often willing to help others - or even just consider others' intentions and possible difficulties - so I won't be joining any campaign to deter would-be helpers.

Click to expand...

I would say that in general our experience was always positive. There were times when we could have done with some help, but usually the lack of this was just because there was nobody around. It is just the odd occasion when we have totally misjudged a person's ability or intentions that stand out in one's mind.

My marina is designed to encourage co-operation by virtue of having hoops instead of rings, making it especially interesting for visitors, with no shore lines to pick up. I am always willing to leave my drink temporarily unattended while I go to assist, but it would be more satisfying if everyone took the trouble to say thank you, if only briefly.

I would often have my very small daughter help when she was 11 and early teens. She was small for her age, but VERY competent handling lines, because we had talked about the drill and we had sailed a lot, since before she could walk. She was my able bodied crew, since my wife had serious knee problems. Often we cruised, just two of us. Great father-daughter times.

She would get soo mad when a "grownup" would come and take the line from her ... and then screw up! And of course, she couldn't tell them anything.

I too like to offer assistance if it is needed however I always do what I’m told by the crew, even if that seems madness to me.

When we moor, two up, we have stern line ready with loop shoreside end, bitter end around the genoa winch. Bow line with loop boat end. Crew steps off, drops stern line loop over cleat, I can then control stern from the helm via the genoa winch. Crew then takes a turn around a cleat with bow line, works well. However on more than one occasion we have passed the stern line to helpful line taker standing on the pontoon with request to drop it over the cleat, but this blows the helpers mind. Line taker is freaked because they have a loop so start to pull but when they pull they pull it off the genoa winch - chaos ensues. So if offering help I do exactly what I’m told to do, if others did the same I think it would be better all around.